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Tanking Heroic Trial of Champions
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Post by
Poposhka
Hello all.
I was looking for some opinions on what stats a Warrior should have before first attempting H-ToC?
- Defense 535+?
- Armor: 25K?
- Health 30K?
- Avoidance: 40%?
Any input welcome.
Post by
302210
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Shiverlynn
I tank with 32k unbuffed health and around 40% avoidance just fine. Obviously you need to be uncrittable but then it's just a heroic slightly harder than the others.
Post by
Victarious
I roll with 31K unbuffed, ~43% avoidance, and ~25K armor, and no issues. But, I've never done it with any other/lesser gear, so I dunno what the bare minimums would be. But if you have stats similar to the ones you're asking about, you should be fine.
Post by
302210
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
119424
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pak52b
well, heroic trial can be a pain in the rear if you get the wrong group. if the dps is crappy, the fights are going to take forever, and its pretty healing intensive.. (at least thats what i thought on my pally).
i dont think there is a "minimum" you need - it all depends on the group. (but the more the better ^^)
Post by
148123
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
Highly depends on your group composition, healer type, healer gear and skill, dps and the type of the bosses you get at faction champions and whether you get confessor over the paladin.
Most ridiculous setup is:
Slacky priest, low geared, spamming flash heal, not using any hots, prayer of mending and getting 70% of his healing from Desparate Prayer. Healing reactively (after you get the damage). Not able to know that he us supposed to put Fear Ward on himself on Confessor as he needs to keep healing even when whole group is feared.
No shaman in the group and whole group melee, weak geared, not able to move from whirlwind, interrupt confessor renews etc. Or a few ranged but on Confessor staying at max range, making it unable for healer to heal everyone after a fear. Huntard not able to use Tranquil shot on adds Renew and having no idea what MD is is a good option as well. No tremor totem so fears will hurt.
Faction champs composition:
MS warr, Rogue, Hunter.
At this setup you (and group) will get ridiculous amount of damage, as you get 5 stacks of deadly poison, MS, whirlwind and lightning arrows. Also MS warr will keep turning your back against the other melee (rogue).
Priest cannot dispell Poison, and no shaman in the group for Cleanse totem.
On Confessor just everyone will die eventually as healer will fail at healing terribly and dps will be unable to get over "recount &*!@# dps king pattern" not doing basic utility of their classes.
With this group you can pretty much fail with 35k hp, 547 def and 24k armor. I did a couple of times. Got a few nice questions whether i am uncritable, or whether my spec is exactly correct for this.
Post by
montezuma7
I have done HToc way undergeared, 23k unbuffed hp but defense capped. I was wearing a ton of blues like tempered saronite bracers for the tons of defense on them. We wiped a couple times but were able to do it. I had a holy pally with about 3600 gearscore but our dps was awesome, hunter doing 5k, mage doing 4k and a dk at 3.5k.
It totally depends on your group. A well geared healing can carry an undergeared tank and maybe a bad dps, and amazing dps can carry undergeared tanks/heals. None of the fights really last that long so if you bring in like a 5k dps hunter for example you can do it with poor gear cus he'll burn stuff down before you have a chance to die.
Big thing to remember is all the champion guys can be stunned/cc'd. You can gag order silence the mage, shockwave them, conc blow, all of that. If you get people to help you stunlock them it's not bad at all.
The hardest part is probably the black knight phase 2 with all the ghouls. If you tank them all and are undergeared you'll probably die cus it's too much dmg. Better to kite them or let your healer body tank them if he can. My healer is a pally so he just beacons me and heals himself with the adds on him and concentration aura up. Then he bubbles in phase 3 to avoid the crazy aoe.
If you're going to pug it and don't want to get %^&*!ed out and blamed for wipes I'd say get defense capped at 535 (all you need for heroics, you need 540 for raids) and have 27k hp unbuffed. But if you have 3k gearscored dps only doing 1500 dps then that might not even be enough. It depends on your whole group.
Post by
148123
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Poposhka
update on this: I was able to tank H-Toc for the first time the other night. It went ok.
My stats are as follows
HP: 29k
Armor: 24.5k
Def/Res: 544/15
Avoidance: 46.55%
I still needed to have a bunch of stuff socketed, for stamina even (boggle). And i need to rearrange gems for the overage on defense.
I did go down during the 3 champs (which was a not-too-bad combo: hunter, mage, rogue) but it was at the end, and the dps was able to power through. Eadric was a walk in the park, and the BK didn't put up much of a fight, i did have to pop last stand/shield wall during phase 3, as i got marked for death.
looking forward for the next trip.. just crossing my fingers not to get the warrior champion.
Post by
Zakkhar
Ever tanked Old Kingdoms? The spellfingerers shadowbolts usually hits for like 20k shadow damage, that's why they should be nuked, or as a prot warrior simply spell reflected, but imagine this..
They hit for
percantage of max HP
Very similar effect to Nerubians Poison in Cot.
Unless healer is a Pala and does Lay hands its a wipe. The cast time however makes it bound to be interrupted.
You can interrupt by charging him in addition to spell reflect. Should be able to live through it.
A dps "accidently" pulls 2 packs of mobs, I get 2 spell fingerers just laughing at me when they are casting their bolts..Spell reflecting one of the bolts, and since noone of the dpsers even have a slightest clue what they are doing, the other one is able to finish his cast..20k hit + 4 other mobs keep smashing me,. wipe.. healer goes Q_Q "Are you defcapped?" "nah, I'm just wearing this shiny epics that are loads better than your gear, but I havent reached def cap yet.." healer keep Q_Qing and put me on his ignore list simply because I told him the truth,.. middle finger /leave, and I will hopefully never see him again..
Hard to get dps who are willing to do anything over ninja pulling and looking at recount.
The more you appreciate when you actually find someone competent.
Post by
367590
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
I have to say i'm guilty of this as a healer. However now that i know how the ability works i still have to say its the tanks fault. Between spell reflect, shield bash, and charge, a warrior tank should have no problem with these guys.
You sir, are ignorant.
Healers duties:
keep tank alive, keep himself alive, keep other healing classes alive, keep top dps alive, keep others alive, keep players pets alive. Not very complicated.
Dps duties:
DPS!11111! AOE!1111! NINJA PULL!1111! FROST SHOCK!111 BLADESTORM !11! ASK FOR DPS CHARTS EVERY SINGLE PULL! SPAM RECOUNT !11
NOT Dps duties:
Interrupt, Stun, Misdirect, Threat Reset, CC, Debuff, not standing in bad stuff
TANK duties:
Surviving, Preventing healer from dying, preventing dps from dying, Interrupt, Spell reflect, Stun, Debuffing, Keeping focused on every single mob to prevent/interrupt/counteract whatever its doing
Profit.
Tanks never mark anymore, which should be a #1 priority with the horibad dps running around and a tank should be able to easily interrupt those guys. Mark it with skull so your brain dead dps focus's on it and keep it set as your focus. make a macro /focus so you can watch for the cast.
If dps is horribad markings wont help. Horribad dps dont have a clue about marking or kill order. All they care is spamming 1 aoe button.
Now on pulling adds, yeah that's always the fault of who ever does it and i never blame the tank for not being able to live through that, anyone who does blame the tank for dying when the dps pulls the entire room is just stupid.
Now, thats fun... provided that tank and healer survive. Been saving people from wipes numerous times and only a few appreciated that. Most of the time i get the "are you def capped?" #$%^.
Post by
367590
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Poposhka
It's funny though, my pally healer went into h-Toc and was told 'it's really hard for healers'. But pretty quickly i realized that , yeah it's pretty hard on healers, because noone interrupts the heals, the tank doesn't disarm bladestorm (which the dps is more than happy to stand in), and everyone runs to the green goo like it's friggin halloween candy.
Yeah damn right it's hard on the healer when people refuse to use utility abilities like Kick, Counterspell, Blink, Disarm, Dismantle, Blind, Shocks, etc etc etc etc.
Funny though, that when i try to go to Htoc with my tank, i get told its really hard on the tank. damn right it's hard when the priest gets feared on the first nightmare, the mage runs across the room when chased by ghouls instead of frost nova, and the paladin doesn't pop cooldowns when the tank is marked.
=) pugging at its best.
Post by
Kaaden
A Warrior tank can make or break a H ToC group.
Ambrose Boltspark
is a perfect example, spell reflect fireballs, shield slam his
Haste Buff
Also
Argent Confessor Paletress
can be a pain if the warrior does not spend the time to focus her while tanking her Image, when you see her casting her holyfire on you be sure to spell reflect it, and be sure to shield slam her
Renew
on anyone she casts it upon.
Finaly
The Black Knight
is a semi-hard, 1st phase taunt the Ghoul and be sure to keep up spell reflect it actually blocks his diseases. 2nd phase same as the first except
Challenging Shout
his ghouls and t-clap them and shockwave while moving him around out of the
Desecration
. Third phase just burn him down fast help the healer our with
Enraged Regeneration
and
Last Stand
BAM! easy Instance :D
Post by
montezuma7
It's funny though, my pally healer went into h-Toc and was told 'it's really hard for healers'. But pretty quickly i realized that , yeah it's pretty hard on healers, because noone interrupts the heals, the tank doesn't disarm bladestorm (which the dps is more than happy to stand in), and everyone runs to the green goo like it's friggin halloween candy.
Yeah damn right it's hard on the healer when people refuse to use utility abilities like Kick, Counterspell, Blink, Disarm, Dismantle, Blind, Shocks, etc etc etc etc.
Funny though, that when i try to go to Htoc with my tank, i get told its really hard on the tank. damn right it's hard when the priest gets feared on the first nightmare, the mage runs across the room when chased by ghouls instead of frost nova, and the paladin doesn't pop cooldowns when the tank is marked.
=) pugging at its best.
It is actually pretty rough on paladin healers compared to other heals because of all the aoe dmg, which pallys can have trouble with. With a druid healing me my hp never drops below like 70% cus of rolling hots.
But you are right, this is probably the most group oriented dungeon in the game right now, everyone needs to chip in. Like I said, I've tanked it with 23k hp unbuffed because our dps was good and helped cc and burn stuff fast.
Post by
Zakkhar
It's funny though, my pally healer went into h-Toc and was told 'it's really hard for healers'. But pretty quickly i realized that , yeah it's pretty hard on healers, because noone interrupts the heals, the tank doesn't disarm bladestorm (which the dps is more than happy to stand in), and everyone runs to the green goo like it's friggin halloween candy.
I tried disarming and dismantling bladestorm numerous times, but for some reason he still deals full whirl damage. Just no melee. I tried before he does it and while he is doing it and it never worked correctly.
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