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wow armoryd u Aris lol u havnt even killd all the keepers in 10 man yet el o el
and havnt touchd 25 man...
i kno u probably gonna come back and say " i didnt say i did" or something lol but who cares thats the guild not you.
at least he is tanking, not like some dps dk's here giving advice on how to tank although they have no experience in it whatsoever.
sure aris his build is unconventional and i would never use it, but like he said he's the tank tanking trash and the adds on boss. in light of that his build makes a lot more sense.
also a mouse-over macro works wonders when tanking 2-3 mobs, fails horrible when there are 5-6. now i'm pretty sure no one has any problems with 2-3 mobs, but if they have problems aoe tanking 5-6 is probably the number where problems start.
lastly a frost tank can get away without using D&D, doesn't mean that it is the ideal way. using D&D provides the most aoe threat, and the burst threat is already well established with hb & bb.
OP if you are learning to tank, get morbidity and use D&D at start of every pull. will make your life a lot easier.
also if there are several casters you can either los em or you can just put D&D under their feet and run up to them
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
You are correct in 2 parts. Mouse over macros get really ineffective after 3 mobs and tossing d&d and run to is much better than just tossing it out there and telling people to stand in it.
Not sure who you are referring to in DPS Dk's who have no experience tanking? I tank just about every instance my guild runs except Uld 25 where I dps. His build is only part of the issue. Frankly If you decide to waste a few points that your option. I spec into Imp Icy Talons and acclimation, but that's my build, and some call it wasting. I don't raid with an enhance shaman so it is the way I go to help raid dps.
The main problem we had was rotation and glyphing, plus his desire to tell people to spec out of Rime and into Chillblains. His misinformation points to a serious lack of understanding of frost tanking mechanincs. Nystali, Lynri, Myself, and several other tanking dk's all have said this about Morbidity. "Morbidity is a good 3 point spend for beginning Frost tanks. Once you feel comfortable than there is no need to spec into it, as you will rarely use D&D again as it will severly limit your abilities. As of 3.1, Frost doesn't use dual disease or pest as it is a waste of GCD and a waste of runes. That isn't even an option anymore it simply is a proven fact. Just about every good death knight tank will tell you, they could see using Plague Strike at the beginning for initial aggro on single target situations, but none will say pestilence is a smart thing. HB/BB/D&D is more effective for frost tanks only this isn't me spouting an opinion it's a proven documented numerous times fact.
For example I recently 8 man downed xt where the Main tank and one dps died about 1 minute into the fight. Through positioning and smart hunters I was able to tank one of the adds and the boss for the rest of the fight as we downed the boss. I used D&D once in the entire fight and that was after taunting the boss and add to me to build more threat so my dps can once again all out dps.
He has yet to provide a reasonable example as to how chillblains over rime is a benefit. The only thing he keeps stating is that he keeps losing aggro on people and it allows him to get it back, and that he rarely saw Rime proc. Both of the answers to those were spec and glyph, that and he doesn't use Oblit. When given these answers his answer was well I tank great so stuff it. I don't mind if he wants to hurt his own guilds ability to progress, but please don't pass along bad builds with misinformation, or it will be shot down.
I have no desire to continue this conversation as it has gotten into a prolonged debate over the same thing, and hopefully by now based on his responses other dk's will see and note that what he is attempting to pass along is a misunderstanding of effective tanking and misinformation about DK tanking, and not something they should try to do.
From the sounds of it you are still learning the tricks and trades of a frost tank, personally I think all this will come with experience. Also, and I hope this isnt the case, it sounds as though you havent done heroics at all, and running heroics helps all as all different heroics have all different senarios that end up showing in naxx.
Aris from the sounds of it, you don't raid ulduar at all. You're achivements point out that you havent downed any of the keepers, and yes I know achivements are fairly retarded to go by to see were a person stands, but these achi's are automatic when you down the boss, meaning you don't have to do anything but kill him, no time limit no special circumstances nothing. So yes in Naxx, your rotation may work well as all the trash is AOE trash, I can almost guarntee (i suck at spelling sorry) that once you move onto Ulduar, youre going to have some issues. So comparing what your guild can do, to reflect on you doesnt work.
Also PS should only be in your first rotation, if at all, in a Frost tank HB/OB build.
As far as the judgement of Eleazer not mattering, I kinduv aggree and disagree. Agree cause all in all he/she is just another player and your play style maybe different. But I disagree more, he/she like Lynri have made a well respected name for themselves on this forum. Have helped many, like myself, when they could have just blown it off. Also, they have done their homework with Frost tanking(Eleazer) and Frost DPS(Lynri), so when it comes to those people have a tendancy to listen to them instead of people who, when armoried, are proven to be nothing more then talk.
For the OP as my first comment was experience get more and youll learn to adapt easier to different situations. You'll become a great tank just keep working at it and dont get discouraged.
My guild just did it's first 10man naxx and we did spider and got to grobulus took us 4hrs for spider wing and a little over 3 hrs after one shotting Patchwork. Very discouraging when coming from a guild on my main thats used to getting to General in one night wether it be 10man or 25man Ulduar. But all in all it feels great once you get to that point were you're like naxx10/25 wth is that baby stuff.
Baralin, I appreciate the kind comments. Sometimes I come off as arrogant and stubborn (which I am :P), but I do put in the homework and the practice. I have a couple questions for you.
Are you tanking Naxx 10? My first Naxx 10 run was the same as yours, except I wasn't tanking, but it took a good 3-4 hours to do one wing which upset me since I usually only have 3-4 hours to spend playing. It can be discouraging which is why I like OS 10 and VoA 10 as it is alot easier to get a guild to go through those and to work on your tanking tactics. My favorite thing was to try and tank Naxx 10 solo for as long as I can, same with OS and VoA. OS was a great learning experience, and allowed me to get comfortable.
:/ How could you lose aggro with the use of HB/BB..
Try to frost-strike on the mob with lowest HP..
I tried to tank in Uld, with my naxx10 & crafted gears :/
No threat issue, unless I forget to stay in Frost Presence.
wow armoryd u Aris lol u havnt even killd all the keepers in 10 man yet el o el
and havnt touchd 25 man...
I love how you all only read parts of my posts and then reply without reading it all. My guild has a progression 25man raid, a progression 10man raid and a casual secondary 10man raid, all ulduar. I clearly stated that i am in the guilds secondary raid group and not the primary progression. That still doesn't change the fact that i am considered by everyone in my guild, even those in the progression raids, to be the guilds best AoE tank. I've had numerous requests by the GM's for me to tank for them, but right now I'm stuck on swing shift at work and unable to. So as of now i am stuck "only" clearing up to mimiron on 10man ulduar in our secondary raid group.
Aris from the sounds of it, you don't raid ulduar at all. You're achivements point out that you havent downed any of the keepers,
You dont get the achievment until you kill all 4 of the keepers smart guy. We down 8 bosses up to /including hodir in the first 3 hours of the first night, then do Thorim/Freya the second night and are working on Mimiron. I dont get the achievment till we down mimiron but that doesnt mean i havnt downed the other 3.
If you had bothered to look at all of my achievments, you'd notice i have "Staying Buffed all winter", "i have the coolest friends" and "cheeze the freeze" from hodir, and then "I'll take you all on" from thorim. Thus proving at the very least i've downed 2 of the 4, and we do down freya fairly easily every week though no achievments to prove it till we down mimiron.
@eleazer was just in general. an example being the mouse over macro. anyone who did any serious tanking would know that macro has several serious flaws and wouldn't advice it.
Eleazer yes I am MT for our Naxx10 group, Ive done countless VoA10 and OS10 runs waiting on guildies to get geared for Naxx10.
Also just curious, or maybe its me, but do DPS seem to think they dont need to run heroics ever and can just hop into a Naxx10 group, guild or pug, doing 800DPS and think its ok? Numerous times this has happened when we need to pug our last DPS and I had to actually tell a guildy till he ran more heroics and was able to do 1500 or more that I couldnt take him. I know that was kinda a messed up thing to do to the guildy and I did get my ass chewed out by my GM, untill I explained the reason why.
Any ways, I never have used many macro's and i keep hearing you can macro RS into your attks? Now i Never miss a RS but I figured this would let me focus on other things then waiting for the <Rune Strike> to flash at the bottom of my screen
Macroing RS simply allows for a quicker RS. I am against most macros that combine swings. I macro trinkets and clickys but rarely attacks. The benefit of macroing RS is that RS is based on your white damage and so you can only use it every time you would normally have a white damage swing, which means you can OBlit/RS/Oblit/RS and hit one button. It's not necessary.
In Naxx 10, i like to force tanks to solo tank it, makes things go faster there is a tip for tanking the hound boss by yourself. A rogue with anasthetic poison causes him not to enrage so you won't take any major damage. I tend to tank the ghouls and not the boss on that fight it's just easier. Hmmm, this sounds like a good thread idea.
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