The Garrosh Thread

Post by taurenmoo812

Fair enough. Point still remains though, and the goblin said it clearly, it was a poor decision, even if he didn't know the dragons were gonna attack. It was an unprovoked attack at that moment where the alliance hadn't spotted them, and he made the first move, BUT, he didn't join the battle.
Funny how the orc who kicked the goblin called Garrosh a winner, when in the next instance, he lost and his ship crashed and burned.

Post by Skreeran

Why are we arguing about this?

Tauren doesn't like Garrosh. Adams thinks he's okay.

I still don't much like him.

But you two are arguing about what might have hypothetically happened in an event that we don't even have all the information on. We don't know what would have happened if Garrosh had kept the airships around, and we never, ever, ever will.

Stop arguing about it.

Since your back Skree, was wondering about that thing about Drek'thar. Like say I know he doesn't want anything to do with the forsaken anymore, but it sounded like you said he was packing it all in with the horde? Whats up with that?I was under the impression that Drek'thar basically said "Screw the Horde," after Cromush asked him for help.

Maybe I was wrong, but I can't find the dialogue now.

Post by hymer

I never thought I'd say this, but based on this discussion, I'm really warming to Garrosh being the warchief. I always thought it was a good choice from a story-based point of view (who wants peace when there's shiny badges and honor points for the PvPers? And what could be more fun than putting the hammer to the opposing faction's leaders?).
But now I'm beginning to look forward to working for Garrosh, and my sympathy for Thrall is waning (I never did like shamans). Any time I see Garrosh doing something reckless and arrogant, it reminds me of building a big group of zealots and sending them on a suicide mission against the enemy base. Just attack into the middle of it, and sit back and watch the slaughter. Usually they don't fare too well, but the feeling when they do... Awesome! They really will overcome the entire Swarm "with might and fury that is heritage".
And that's how I want to see the Horde win their battles: A wild, mad rush and going berserk all over the enemy, and making another enemy in the bargain and stomping on them too. And then loot, burn and pillage!
Go Garrosh!

Post by 632573

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Post by Skreeran

And that's how I want to see the Horde win their battles: A wild, mad rush and going berserk all over the enemy, and making another enemy in the bargain and stomping on them too. And then loot, burn and pillage!Well that's where we differ.

That may be how the Horde did things historically, under Blackhand and Doomhammer, but I played Alliance in Warcraft 2, and I fought the evil orcs back to the portal that spawned them. The Horde I fell in love with was the one I played in Warcraft 3. Willing to cooperate, carefully calculated, wise, but not at the cost of power.

Lord of the Clans only further solidified my love for them. I abhorred the Horde in Rise of the Horde, however, and I have no desire for them to return to that.

Post by Adamsm

You have 3 types of people. Adams; Garrosh takes a crap on a piece of canvas and Adams calls it art.I'm just not crying the sky is falling because I trust in Blizzard. He's a badly written character now but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but of course, to someone who hates the character, that equals fanboism eh? Whatever.

Post by hymer

I learned to love the knitting Horde, Skreeran. Maybe you'd be happier if you learn to love screaming Horde?

Post by 448765

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Post by taurenmoo812

Ah I see. So because unlike anyone else whos sank into the force feed garroshism that people have been feeding on, because I see him as the guy who ruined what the horde meant to me, that makes me insane. Making the orcs into savage, remorseless brutes who show a greater lack of honor, making all orc buildings into hellfire citadel 2, and giving all orcs cause to act like they did in warcraft 1-2, I should be thankful for that?
Right, sure, how about when the alliance starts behaving like the nazi party, and see all other races as inferior to humans again, you then tell me it doesn't piss of alliance fans.

At least I have a principle, knowing what I actully did like about the horde, instead of just falling into type with whateversa thrown there way and calling it canon.

Post by hymer

I think what makes some people question your sanity, moo, is how much energy and emotion you invest in fictitious concepts, and perhaps your perceived unwillingness to see these fictitious concepts from different points of view suggested by others.
I could be mistaken, though.

Post by Monday

You have 3 types of people. Adams; Garrosh takes a crap on a piece of canvas and Adams calls it art.

Um... what?

Anyways, Right, sure, how about when the alliance starts behaving like the nazi party, and see all other races as inferior to humans again, you then tell me it doesn't piss of alliance fans.

It would be an interesting plot twist for sure.

I think the thing is that Tauren is very passionate, to where he sees Azeroth as a place, where I see it mostly as a story (certain events excluded of course. I got some dust in my eye when Bolvar died.)

Post by Skreeran

I learned to love the knitting Horde, Skreeran. Maybe you'd be happier if you learn to love screaming Horde?Nah, I don't think so. To me and my characters, killing is a means to an end. My characters kills to protect their loved ones or innocent people. With Garrosh and co., it seems like they kill for killings sake.

At the very least, I really don't like their imperialistic stance (i.e. "Azeroth is ours, we are it's masters!" or "Let's drive the Alliance off this world altogether!"). I support the pre-Horde and New Horde stances of "We share this world, take only what we need."

Besides, who says the New Horde was the "knitting Horde?"

The New Horde killed Mannoroth, helped drive back the Legion, liberated Outland, and "killed" (to whatever extent that word can be applied) an Old God. Plus, just look at Saurfang, Drek'thar and Thrall. All total badass powerhouses, but they know when to restrain themselves as well.

Post by taurenmoo812

It would be an interesting plot twist for sure.

I think the thing is that Tauren is very passionate, to where he sees Azeroth as a place, where I see it mostly as a story (certain events excluded of course. I got some dust in my eye when Bolvar died.)

Your right. I am ver passionate about the story. See a story like warcraft is very unlike the kind of story you have with, say, a set trilogy, like lord of the rings or a game like final fantasy. For those kind of storys, the plot is set, and so are the character.
In something like warcraft, the story is always changing, characters are developing, changing, coming into the story, dying out, and unlike set storys like the aboved mentioned, as it turns out, a lot of what the fan base says does effect how the story can progress.

Its like comic books, an ongoing story on there cases spent decades of developing, changing, characters coming in, dying, new ones, old ones. And nothing is set on how those characters will develop, even by the writers, because something could alter the way the story runs via if new or old writers change it so.

Why do you think they have open forums for things like lore discussions and game mechanics and that? So blizzard can get feedback on whats happening and develop it along in such a way. For years people have said 'we want goblins' or 'When is deathwing coming into it' or 'Can we have flying in old azeroth?' no one years before would have guessed in cataclysm this would be happening, and because they followed what the fans were yelling for, they followed through.

So, in truth, unlike someone who just sits down accepts anything blizzard throws at them, I'm part of the majority that actully speaks up and says so. And yes, I do say it on offical forums too.

Post by 306612

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Post by taurenmoo812

quoted from a poster on mmo champ.

I've been leveling an Orc Death Knight through Outland and now Northrend, and wow! From what I've seen so far, Garrosh is absolutely ridiculous. First I find him in Nagrand all weepy and crying in front of a fire (And no, he didn't get that way because Greatmother Gey'ah put him down. Where did you even get that? She was nothing but supportive of him, and trying to get him out of his funk). At one point he says that you should lead the Mag'har, as he obviously sucks at it. Then Thrall shows up and gives him his balls back.

Fast forward to Borean Tundra (which wasn't much of a fast forward for me, as I went straight there after I finished with Nagrand. One quest short of the achievement, I couldn't believe it). And what do I find? Garrosh remembers me... and then tells me to run away screaming like a little girl cause I'm not man enough to deal with the stuff going on there. WTF? A few quests later he has the gall to tell me that I'm not as completely useless as he first thought I'd be. This from the guy who asked me to take over his job from him?

Is he a free spirit, now? Sure. Unfortunately his becoming a free spirit led to his becoming an unbelievable prick and an unrelentingly stupid person. I swear, the Hulk's got more brains than Garrosh seems to have.

You see, well characters like Lothar, Tirion, Sylvanas, Thrall, Doomhammer, and hell even trade prince Gallywix have a consistant and believeable character development, Garrosh is just having personaility changes that makes Varians split personaility look plain as a concrete slab.

Post by 306612

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Post by hymer

Post by Skreeran

And who says the screaming Horde is the screaming Horde, Skree? ;)
But I do take your point (not about the knitting Horde; I can't tell you how happy I am the knitting Horde seems to be heading the dodo's way). Like moo, you think of the game as something a little (or a lot?) more, and you don't want it to change. And you don't want to change the way you view it, either. I hope you'll have fun anyway.Well, thank you for the sentiment (I think... <_<).

I take many fictions quite seriously (at least those that a) I personally subscribe to, and b) have a broad spanning universe), not because I am delusional, but just because I treat them as if my character was a living, breathing person inside them. In Mass Effect, for example, I never make an off-the-handle decision when it comes to moral choices. I, as a human being living in the real world, know that no one will actually be harmed, no matter what decision I choose, but my character still does not want any innocent people in his universe to be harmed, so I try to make the decision as if it were real. See how that works?

Same thing in Warcraft. I know that the Horde does not exist, and that no matter what happens in the game, no real people will ever be harmed. And yet, when I remember what the Old Horde did (murder of civilians, genocide and attempted genocide, rape, torture), it makes me feel somewhat bad about the direction the current Horde is heading. Yes, of course I know it's not real, but to the characters that I have written and continue to write, it is, so I feel responsible to try and treat it seriously.

Post by hymer

Didn't mean to invoke any sense of trepidation. Whatever floats your boat and all that. :)

Post by Adamsm

taurenmoo is right. garrosh actually does want world domination of the horde. he's a maniac, an antagonist, and is clearly being set up to be killed off at the end of cata (by saurfang likely).

dont see how taurenmoo is the only person able to see this.

That describes Sylvanas too.

The Garrosh Thread

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