The Garrosh Thread

Post by hymer

I don't think I need 'excuses' to think what I think. At least not any more than you need them, moo. I'll answer those 'excuses' that seem to fit me.

'Garrosh horde is like the real horde should be!' And what is that, the real horde being a group of brutal killers who forsake there allies and break bonds of honor made, for the sake of killing things?

The 'real' Horde ought to look first to violence, not diplomacy. If I wanted diplomacy, I'd play Civ. If I wanted mushy feelings, I'd read Cartland.
I'm not interested in the Horde thriving. I want to see them fighting. Who cares that the Jedi are peaceloving diplomats? We wanna see them use those lightsabres!

I honestly, can Not factor why people think the horde, the orcs more then anything, are better in cata. They've lost what made them the noble savage warriors with honor, to just being a marauding band of brutes again. What they gain in strength, they lost in just about everything else.

All those other things were never that appealing in the Horde, at least to me. What appealed to me was savagery, and even downright evil. I never looked for heroes among the orcs (except perhaps in the ancient Greek sense), and finding them was jarring.

So why is this a good thing? The progression of lore? No, if anything, it reverts the lore, going backwards, because you know full well, the orcs are going to make so many screw ups in cata, there have to regain there lost honor once again, and history repeats itself.

The pendulum swings both ways. Stagnation isn't a good thing, especially for a game like WoW. You see a good thing coming to an end, I see a bad thing coming to an end. For the time being, at least. And I do see quite a bit of difference. This time, orcs are savage because they're savage. No more demonblood excuses.

Also note this: A creature that has not the capacity for both good and evil is not freewilled. It cannot choose. Orcs can choose. I just want them to choose savagery because it makes for an action-packed story. It allows me to play out the things I never get to do in real life: React with brute strength rather than tact and sensitivity.

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Post by taurenmoo812

So why is this a good thing? The progression of lore? No, if anything, it reverts the lore, going backwards, because you know full well, the orcs are going to make so many screw ups in cata, there have to regain there lost honor once again, and history repeats itself.

I for one don't really think its a good thing, just a necessity.

If Garrosh's lead didn't make so much bad out of the Horde recently, he would be what the Horde needs, someone that is more inclined to wage war at the Alliance.

But why? ok, the alliance are getting more agressive against the horde now in cata, but honestly, do we even know if it was the alliance agresstion that sparked it, or if was what Garrosh wanted to make happen in the first place, and the first sign of any agression from the alliance had him go 'RAAWRR, KILL THEM ALL!'?

As attacking the alliance to fight back against them it is needed to be agressive against them. But to drive the orcs back down that same path they did before, is it worth to the point of them becoming 'that' horde again? The whole reason I like the horde is because they did overcome that, as I said, playing an orc knowing it was more then just some lord of the rings flat character made it more appealing.

Also hymer, I pretty much scrolled over your reply, not taking any mind to it since your someone who only wants to play evil characters, and take any oppertunity to have reason to, rather then taking wind of the better point of those characters.

The pendulum point though, yeah, it does swing both ways, and it also swings back to the same point to. So with that as your reasoning, you just have to agree this dark chapter for the horde in cata will swing back too.

Post by Adamsm

It was the Cataclysm that sparked it; suddenly, major areas of the world are torn apart, supplies are disrupted, people are pushed out of their homelands, new aggressive creatures appear, and some of them just happen to look like the opposite faction.... it's a war torn world now. Maybe Garrosh shot first, maybe Wrynn did....but more then likely it was Twilight Cultist manipulating everything from behind the scenes, and before you yell objection, apparently there were Cultists hidden in the Horde away from Thrall so it doesn't matter who the Warchief is for that.

Blame the writers, not the characters.

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Post by Adamsm

The Horde is, now, simply as gray as the Alliance.Gah! Don't say that! That's like throwing gasoline onto a camp fire!

Beyond that, I agree with Delt and Sigma.

Post by taurenmoo812

You know a war is never built to be faught forever. I agree, Varian started this with his declaration of war. Garrosh is thick as holy hell, so took it as the chance to go to war.

What I find remarkable, is how they seemed to just write of Thrall here. He would have figured Garrosh's intent. So he either knew war was coming and left Garrosh in charge to go to war, or he pretended it wasn't gonna get this bad? Just seems writers are on the flow of writing of characters in the worst way now (Cough* malygos *cough).

The pendulum is set to swing back of course, but the thing is, unlike in warcraft 1 and 2, where ultimately, it lead to the victory of the alliance over the horde (the horde just chased the alliance away after they took stormwind, the horde was ultimately defeated, said so in the orcs opening intro). So what is this going to lead to? Is one side set to complete dominate the other? Can you really, honestly see that happening in WOW? Or can you accept its just gonna be another stalemate after a load of turf wars go down?

Post by GVHB

Post by Adamsm

Wrote Thrall off here? He's the 'uber-mench' shaman of the Gods, where else would he be apparently. And it will always be stalemate, as the factions can never win over each other...at least not in an MMO setting. You want something different, you'll have to stick to the RTS games.

Post by taurenmoo812

The pendulum is set to swing back of course, but the thing is, unlike in warcraft 1 and 2, where ultimately, it lead to the victory of the alliance over the horde (the horde just chased the alliance away after they took stormwind, the horde was ultimately defeated, said so in the orcs opening intro). So what is this going to lead to? Is one side set to complete dominate the other? Can you really, honestly see that happening in WOW? Or can you accept its just gonna be another stalemate after a load of turf wars go down?

It is going to be a stalemate. Blizzard won't make one faction more dominant than the other in WoW.
Exactly. All this smoke about all out wars just gonna lead to another cold war situation.

and who said I wanted that Adams? I'm stating a matter of fact here, one side will never beat the other in wow now, so all this one side dominating the other people have been forming is just.. hollow.
In all honesty, the way it works in wow, a perma cold war situation is more realistic then this going on in cata.

Post by GVHB

Dunno if cold war, in the end it may lead to a peaceful time or, at least, a time where both faction need to ally against a big treat (the war between the Light and the darkness for example).

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Post by Adamsm

and who said I wanted that Adams? I'm stating a matter of fact here, one side will never beat the other in wow now, so all this one side dominating the other people have been forming is just.. hollow.
In all honesty, the way it works in wow, a perma cold war situation is more realistic then this going on in cata.

Every single one of your posts says otherwise.

And what do you mean more 'realistic'? Both sides suffer losses; Forsaken wipe out Gilneas City and the surrounding areas, sending the King and his people fleeing across the sea(damn that sounds familiar). Horde forces bomb and destroy an Alliance town in Stonetalon, and have pushed the Night Elves back to Astrannar in Ashenvale.

The Night Elves attacked and nearly wiped out the Shatterspear tribe. The Alliance took ground in the Southern Barrens, burning the town protecting the entrance into Mulgore. STV is a war zone between the two, as is Swamp of Sorrows. Alliance and Horde forces are fighting all across Azeroth, neither side 'dominating' the other, and the war is still in 'cold' as neither side can win in a two faction MMO.

Cold Wars only work if both sides are 'equal' and that's not the case in Azeroth post-Cataclysm seeing as so much of the world get's smashed and changed, altering the face of it. It's not just about "HORDE SMASH! ALLIANCE CRUSH!"...well, for everything but the Forsaken; for the other races it's about survival and gaining control of the supplies and land they need to survive.

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Post by Adamsm

for everything but the Forsaken; for the other races it's about survival and gaining control of the supplies and land they need to survive.
For the Forsaken, it's taking over land that their enemies could use to further faceshiv them into oblivion.

Yeah but even the lands the Forsaken take are only good for the Forsaken; the rest of the Horde can't live in places like Tirisfal or Silverpine, seeing as most of the lands are still corrupted and dead after the Scourge invasion heh.

And not losing their rightful claim over Lordaeron.Well the dead humans; the dead Elves....not so much.

The Garrosh Thread

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