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Which is Statistically better?
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Post by
294746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pmpage
All I can say is *yuck*, both builds are far from ideal there. Seems to me you can't really make up your mind as to what you want to do.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=2305021000000000000000000000050000000000000000000000000230230330123115000150223103151
That will give you a good DPS output.
Post by
294746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
retrothe80sninja
Bone shield provides a 2% DPS boost if you missed it.
Post by
Achloryn
For the past 2 hours I have been spec'n and respec'n and I have these 2 builds that are within 100 dps of each other after practice on SW dummies. So basically it'll come down to situation or me messing up my rotation, however I just wanted to know if anyone could tell/show me which is statistically better, thanks.
(For PvE)
Haste build:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=2305020000000000000000000003052005000000000000000000000230232300013113203150203003100
first off.. this build is weird imho.. I'm guessing that you're going for PvE with this build, and you're not a tank cause you don't have the 5/5/5.. i can look at 9 points that would be better spent elsewhere.
Morbidity? if you're not a tank, DnD isn't that great to me, and you shouldn't worry about healing your ghoul very much. If he dies, he dies, if he doesn't, he doesn't, but it's a waste of RP to worry about healing him.
Virulence? you're gonna be going for hit cap, so that extra 3% of chance to hit on spells is useless.
Unholy command? you shouldn't be death gripping much anyway since you won't be doing pulls (unless it's to save a mob from randomly going after a squishy)
On a pale horse? you said yourself that you shouldn't be getting hit that much, so what good is the reduced stun/fear effects? that's much more of a PvP talent i feel.
Some people will disagree with me on this, but i'm not a fan of the gargoyle either. Why? cause I use unholy blight. it's a much better usage of RP and doesn't have a 3 min cooldown.
Reaping, i'm sure others will agree with me on this, but i don't think that death runes are that great unless you're tanking/offtanking. They have great utility for tanking DKs, but in my experience, i'm almost never completely out of runes as a DPSer. it's all about timing.
Unholy aura? i REALLY think this is the worst 2 points that bliz could have made. People will argue that it's better on some bosses that you have to move around a lot in or w/e.. which sure that's true, but that doesn't mean it can't be done without it. Otherwise everyone would just move 15% faster to begin with.
Dirge... eh.. i could take it or leave it.. i make plenty of RP in my normal rotation, but it's a personal call. I put those two leftover points in Magic Supression for the universal 2% resistance to magic.
Now then.. put those points in - Necrosis, Unholy blight, Bone shield (the 40% will help against AOEs also.. and it boosts your damage output by 2%), and Rage of Rivendare.
+5% Crit & 10% more damage with spells and abilities build:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=2305021503000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000230232300013113203150203013150
same things stand true for this build as stand true for what i said of your other one. I would find 1 point to take somewhere and put it in unholy blight... it's a much better RP dump than gargoyle, without a 3 min cooldown. Also, bladed armor without toughness? bah.. i don't understand why. lol.
PS - Blood aura 15% dmg > Unholy aura 15% faster right ?
i'm guessing you mean presence, not aura.. in which case yes, you should always bein blood presence.
Post by
294746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
267524
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
visas
IMO Unholy Blight is not as effective as a RP dump as Gargoyle. Gargoyle can be maintained by generating more RP after it is summoned, increasing the damage contribution. Also, the fact that it hits targets from range rather than requiring you to be near the enemy or waste the duration is a selling point for me. Gargoyle is situational anyway, most of the time I just use Deathcoil to minimize the wasted global cooldowns while my Scourge Strike runes are coming up.
gargoyle is single target, unholy blight is aoe, they're two entirely different spells.
Apples to oranges.
Besides, UB will only take 40 runic power to cast in 3.0.8
Post by
Afoxi
Might i suggest using the
Wowhead calculator
for your next build?
Modification of your haste Build
. It's a bit better, but with this build I don't really see the point with Haste since I removed points from Blood Caked (it's not that great).
I'd sacrifice Impurity if I want BCS though
.
This is all i can come up with for your other build
, I'm pressed for time so the build isn't as nice as i'd like it to be. Someone else could modify this to improve it a little, I bet.
Post by
Achloryn
first off.. this build is weird imho.. I'm guessing that you're going for PvE with this build, and you're not a tank cause you don't have the 5/5/5.. i can look at 9 points that would be better spent elsewhere.
Yeah I say DPS for PvE in my post.
so you did... heh. it's been a long week..
Morbidity? if you're not a tank, DnD isn't that great to me, and you shouldn't worry about healing your ghoul very much. If he dies, he dies, if he doesn't, he doesn't, but it's a waste of RP to worry about healing him.
I think 15% increase in DC damage was pretty good, and I cannot see a better place to put points in the first 2 tiers in Unholy. I'm sure I read necrosis wasn't a great talent.
okay.. i didn't think much about the death coil from the damage aspecT (as i really don't use it much)... wherever you read that necrosis wasn't great... did it give a reason that you remember or can you link me to where you found that info? if i can improve my own dps, i'd love to know as well.
Some people will disagree with me on this, but i'm not a fan of the gargoyle either. Why? cause I use unholy blight. it's a much better usage of RP and doesn't have a 3 min cooldown.
Gargoyle is a huge burst but I haven't seen the numbers on this comparison so..
can anyone help us out with a little theory crafting here? (math is not my strong point, and i know some of you can throw out calculations and i have no clue where they came from.. lol) i realize UB is an aoe and gargoyle is single target, but is their dps contribution merely situational or is one really better than the other, or should i take a point out of something else and invest it in the gargoyle?
Reaping, i'm sure others will agree with me on this, but i don't think that death runes are that great unless you're tanking/offtanking. They have great utility for tanking DKs, but in my experience, i'm almost never completely out of runes as a DPSer. it's all about timing.
Reaping = More Scourge Strikes
for the record, i meant to say DISagree here as well.. lol.. anyway, that's a true enough point. However i've noticed in my rotations that with the extra 6 seconds of DoTs from.... the talent who's name isn't coming to me atm (lol) then after you do your IT>PS>SS>BS>BS rotation, you can simply SSx2>BS>Bs afterwords, and at the end of this rotation, your diseases are just about to wear off.. again, it's more a matter of preference i suppose.
Edit: After messing around with a calculator it's impossible for me to keep Icy Talons AND attain Holy blight, which sort of defeats the purpose of my build. The points you talked about taking out of different talents and put them into UB and Rage of Rivendare is impossible for me to do due to a lack of points in unholy, and you didn't mention taking points out of my Blood/Frost tree's either.
yeah.. i didn't mention taking points out of either tree. the only thing i can see that i would remove is the Icy Reach. chances are you won't need that extra range for dpsing since, if you're moving, you'll be generally closing in on trash/boss anyway, put those two points in glacier rot for the extra frost dmg, IMO.. you're right, there's not many ways to keep your imp icy talons and get UB, without sacrificing some really choice talents in blood. not an optimal decision, and i can definitely see the desire for the imp icy talons.
hrm.. after looking at things, i think the rage of rivendare is just a better all around talent than the imp icy talons. 5 points in RoR is 10% of damage to everyone with blood plague on them.. which should be everyone you come into contact with at all times.. so it's basically 10% extra damage at all times vs 20% haste for 20 sec at a time. it sounds kind of like the unholy presence/blood presence arguement to me. idk.. personal preference again.. you may end up putting out better dps with the imp. icy talons than with the RoR..
Post by
276932
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Achloryn
For DPS as a blood build w/ hysteria, vampiric blood, mark of blood, dancing rune weapon and heart strike death rune mastery can give you a quite nice boost to DPS.
The way to achieve this is by charging you RP w/ death strikes (to get death runes), once full pop hysteria (no GCD), then dancing rune weapon then vampiric blood, once your dancing weapon is out reapply plagues, then do 4 heart strikes (2 blood runes, 2 death runes, 2 sec GCD a peice = 8 sec.), then one death strike, after 2 seconds your blood rune will let you do heart strike again, 2 more seconds and you can do it again.
Mark of blood and icebound fortitude are recommended, but vital if your solo'ing or otherwise taking damage from your target.
Main problem is most things won't survive long enough to do the full rotation o.o , I haven't tested this in PvP but its been a great help for PvE :)
just out of curiosity, why would you use death strikes to get your death runes up? why not obliterate, as it's a much more powerful strike? (assuming of course you have the 3 points in annihilation in the frost tree, but i can't see any reason you wouldn't if you aren't unholy and using scourge strike)
Post by
276932
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Mitokok
(Quoted Achloryn)
Morbidity? if you're not a tank, DnD isn't that great to me, and you shouldn't worry about healing your ghoul very much. If he dies, he dies, if he doesn't, he doesn't, but it's a waste of RP to worry about healing him.
I have to agree with him that the DC damage is great, and if he is going that far in the unholy build what do you suggest he take in its place? ...Anticpation?
Some people will disagree with me on this, but i'm not a fan of the gargoyle either. Why? cause I use unholy blight. it's a much better usage of RP and doesn't have a 3 min cooldown.
tbh you can easily get off an unholy blight, and keep your gargoyle up. The gargoyle does a huge amount of damage and is defintly worth taking.
Reaping, i'm sure others will agree with me on this, but i don't think that death runes are that great unless you're tanking/offtanking. They have great utility for tanking DKs, but in my experience, i'm almost never completely out of runes as a DPSer. it's all about timing.
Turning your blood runes into death runes lets you get off another SS, its a good talent.
Unholy aura? i REALLY think this is the worst 2 points that bliz could have made. People will argue that it's better on some bosses that you have to move around a lot in or w/e.. which sure that's true, but that doesn't mean it can't be done without it. Otherwise everyone would just move 15% faster to begin with.
I have to say I find this talent useful, yeah you don't NEED it but it really does help alot. Also, here is an argument shamlessly taken from Elitest Jerks...
Originally Posted by Zurm
Let's do some napkin math, shall we? In a 25-man, let's assume we have 7 melee DPS. Now lets assume we are on a fight like KT, with approximately 10% running time with no run speed enchant, and let's also assume a personal sunstained DPS of all melee to be 4k. These are all fair numbers from what we have seen on beta, shifted slightly to make the math easier to follow. Now, without any runspeed enchant, we could expect each individual member to do:
Now, if we increase running speed by 15%, we increase the (1-.1) = .9 multiplier to 1-.087 = .913. Re-doing this:
Or a net raid DPS increase on this fight of 364. This is also just purely the DPS benefit from a running fight. This doesn't factor in the ability to hit your WHOLE raid with a 15% boost on fights like Heigan to make it easier (while it's not needed to have this speed boost on heigen, it certainly helps, especially with the achievement where no one can die t his bursts). Also, you will most likely be near to the tanks at all times, and allowing the tanks to grab targets more easily is extremely helpful.
Dirge... eh.. i could take it or leave it.. i make plenty of RP in my normal rotation, but it's a personal call. I put those two leftover points in Magic Supression for the universal 2% resistance to magic.
Agian have to dissagree, I have not been hit by so many spells that I wish I had an extra 2% resistance, however I have noticed that with dirge I was able to get off DC's and UB's quicker, seems like the extra damage would be better than a small resistance.
Now then.. put those points in - Necrosis, Unholy blight, Bone shield (the 40% will help against AOEs also.. and it boosts your damage output by 2%), and Rage of Rivendare.
I do agree that he needs bone shield and unholy blight, just dissagree with the rest of your post.
Also, bladed armor without toughness? bah.. i don't understand why. lol.
Bladed armor can work just fine without toughness, I did some math (not my best subject so correct me if I am wrong...)
Lets say you have 13000 armor with toughness that would be an extra 1950 armor, which would equal to about 54 extra AP... that worth 5 talent points to you?
Well thats about all I have to say on the subject. Good luck with your build.
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