Post by Falos
The "misc perks" of Def is crit reduction
- Buffer, allows flexibility in gear, also skimming results in 489 panic
- Parry > Dodge, the haste is what makes parry rating expensive
- Miss is a passive avoidance, active during channeling, stuns, feats, etc
- Players have more than 5.6% crit (5.6% isn't guaranteed either, see MC-LotP note)
- Efficient table filler (102.4 builds), less bulk than block rating but better weighed
- Block, a misc perk before, but has valid weight now, I agree that how much is yet to be found
Like the minuscule difference in def/dge weights (below), these are generally insignificant and beneath mention. But they're there.
>490 wastes itemization, crit reduction not applied
Not having the full application doesn't mean the stat is diminished into waste, bears could stop getting AC and crit from agi and it'd still give them more dodge than pure dodge rating. Which is kinda weird imo.
For avoidance, dodge is superior point per point.
They're virtually identical, on the verge of insignificant, the most prominent feature being use in "it's still there" arguments. To put the misrepresentation into perspective, I wonder how often Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch
(~2.01% avoidance) has been worn over Scarab of Displacement
(~2.13%) in "avoidance sets" for encounters that are labeled such by "some guy" (far below).
Yakra is EH, Falos is not
The argument is an old one - EH is better for shorter spike fatalities (survives them) avoidance is better in the more sustained ones (reduces outcomes) that aren't survivable period. This is actually mentioned, albeit a little indirectly, in the original post.
The line isn't constant either, encounters vary, how much is put into those autoattacks and the swing speed thereof. Where it becomes my personal opinion is when you "quite comfortably match the boss's normal output"; imo stacking beyond that is wasteful epeective stroking. Tankspot's EH postings do
briefly mention excess waste, it's just that no one notices.
I wasn't really arguing EH/notEH though, so let me hit the nail on the head: The message was that there does come a point where it's waste. Where exactly is more debatable.
Why talk TPS? You strokin'? TPS is old'd.
This was all pre3.0
You're confused because it didn't seem to address the original post. Not surprising, since it wasn't. It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the community, and not just wowhead. Blame the healer, blame the avoidance, blame the PW:S, but it sure couldn't be the tank, could it? "Threat is nonissue now" wasn't the message, "Threat always was nonissue" was.
Why talk Cruelty?
Again, I wasn't addressing you or the original post. Actual reading will reveal that I was merely being pleasantly surprised that it wasn't hiked up. There isn't much math because, except 3 and 4, it is a list of facts
. The only room for argument is whether AP < crit in equal weights, and I'd hate to try doing that.
I'm not expecting you to do
anything with it, I'm not here to tell anyone to do
, just doesn't work on the tubes. I leave some facts, I leave some thoughts, and (at least it seemed) clear enough distinctions on which are which. In this case, I hope to make it easy to compare x/3/x to x/5/x, 'cause I know "some guy" is gonna make a mess of it.
Coming in building nothing and pointing out "some guy" is unwelcome.
Blatant. But you know what? I think I've left quite a lot of data, both the raw, unsubjective variety, and finished conclusions.
"Some guy" isn't you, it isn't a single person, I'm trying to communicate it as an idea to make the point, which again isn't directed at you. In fact, this one isn't just at the tanking community, this one goes out to every "tree/spec/item/etc is the best DPS
" or whatever that is posted for no reason more than "some guy" said so before. Imagine someone rolling a class and investing many hours because their friend heard it was "the best class", a phrase I dislike.Asking trade "what's the best (etc)" will often evoke "some guy"s response
, and my effort is against people using that as basis. The misinformation as a result is the cause of my worn forehead, not you, not the site, not the members, not (sensitive religious/cultural figure), so let's not portray it as offensive.
We build off each other here, you're not doing that.
I'm sorry to hear that, but if you ask me a lot of "I agree" isn't going to result in motion. And to not pass it over, let's look closer: I've put the effects of defense in detail, portrayed EH and survival from multiple angles, and did a (basic) comparison of equal weights AP and crit, something you had little trouble following when it was def/dge - you didn't get those numbers off "some guy" did you?
If you must, put up a white knight banner and shelter the forum/site from me, painted black sheep, but my most offensive stances were (a) insulting threat-ignoring 400TPS tards and (b) insulting people who not only fail to get/check data, not only rely heavily on the word of mouth that some guy heard from some guy, but will defend the idea viciously. So first you'd have to find someone that admits to belonging in one category - find such and I may have a sideways snip to apologize for - then weigh it against my purpose of provoking (rudely maybe) them for better.
My defensive contradictions done, let me take a chance to finally address your work directly, this being the second time only (the first being my original quote and not even half my first post), and now from an "easy to hear" stance. You decide how productive it is.
First, "talking to your healers" is wise in my eyes. Healing is dramatically
enhanced by knowing about coming spikes. One of the pitfalls of healing is a drop in vigilance, you can be attentive and focused for the 4 "standard output" minutes, then drop the ball on the 4 "sudden death" seconds.
Your ability priority list is a touch confusing to me because of trying to mix AoE and single target into one list. I was never a fan of "SS rev devx2" spinning and favored a more reactive and attentive stance; easing into S&B procs was natural. Basically, I was doing the same thing, priority list on the spot. I just think all the "if else" business is kinda hard to portray, demo/tclap and sunder maintenance for example.
The HS discussion caught my eye, not just because it managed to keep it a "waste" ability (I see "some guy" praising HS too much, unaware of the swing in the cost) but there's actual data
on HS vs dev. "Some guy" usually manages to get this right, the community is pretty aware that you want to 2.6 when you're light on HS, but "how heavy" is a very blurry spot, basically OTing was 2.6 and that was all that was known. You tackled that blurry spot head on, and I'm impressed. I myself think this should be watched, I really do wonder about 1.3 daggers (haste even?) in LK if rage and HS uptime get any better.
Last, I hadn't heard windfury didn't consume the enhancing slot anymore, I didn't think it was a b