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Comments

Comment by frmorrison

A useful caster dagger.

It used to have stam/int and 1 to crit and 50 dps, and wasn't too great. Now it is desired. Kudos to blizzard for changing the item.

Comment by Neuromaster

This is a really excellent caster 1h. It's arguably better than the mageblade for sustained raid DPS, due to the extra mana/5.

It's also got a nifty glow effect, even without enchants.

Comment by Thottbot

There are tons of good rogue daggers.

Does really only dps matter!

Let's say - 1 dagger has 100 agility and 51dps.
Other - 1 dagger has 51.2dps and 20 intellect

OMFG 0.2 DPS FTW ROGUE!11111111111

This is clearly a caster weapon because of the +% critical.
I *!@#ing hate noobs,that don't understand it that.

Tbh i'd even say a warlock would fit best for it.
Because warlock has a lot more damage.
Each DOT has it's own ability to do critical.

I am a Warlock myself,CoD did Critical yesterday. 5000 dmg FTW!

Comment by Thottbot

STOP POSTING!

Here is the breakdown for those of you that have poor understanding of how stats configure.

10 Intellect
Every 1 int = 15 mana. So 10 int x 15 mana = 150 mana. Pretty decent. This also increases with mana pool % talents.

+1% to crit with spells
To the person who said "so tiny, you wouldn't eve notice it", you my friend need to learn what you're talking about. It takes 100 INT to equal +1% crit for a caster, so an item that does this is the crit equivalent of 100 int! Also, there are very few caster items that add to crit with spells making this extremely desirable for any caster.

+4 mana regen every 5 seconds
If you don't do end-game content (i.e. Molten Core, Onyxia, BWL etc.) then you obviously wouldn't understand how valuable this is. But to break it down for the less educated crowd, fights in these instances can last a very long time, 15 minutes or more for some bosses. Now, 4 mana every 5 seconds x 60 seconds = 48 mana per minute. Assuming you're fighting for 5 minutes (some fights last longer) that's 240 mana. So in a 5 minute fight this regen rate is equivalent to 16 int! In a longer fight, even more. This means more heals, more dispels, and your groups survivability goes up a notch.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that mana regen items such as this apply even during casting AND during the 5 second after-cast penalty, making mana regen superior to spirit.

51 dps? Who cares, seeing as how daggers with 45 dps AND rogue stats turn out to equal more damage than just a 51 dps with NO ROGUE STATS. Agility adds to rogue crit %, atk power adds damage, strength adds damage. If a 45 dps weapon had stats like this, it would equal more than 51 dps. In other words, rogues, stop simply looking at DPS, it is meaningless. Please shut up.

Comment by Thottbot

Any rogue in a position where they could get this would know that it's a piece of %^&* for rogues. End of discussion.

Comment by Thottbot

just shove one of these up the tailpipe of the abrams and save your rpg-7 for the blackhawks

Comment by Allakhazam

This is the highest DPS on a Dagger in the game as of 3/25/2005. So I see why a dagger spec'ed rogue would want it.

While stat bonus weapons are nice, it all boils down to DPS for rogues.

I understand that its stats are also favorable to a caster, but that does not mean it is not favorable to other classes.

If it came up, I would roll on it.

Comment by Allakhazam

cant believe this.. imagion some casters will specially go for this item. Then some roques will come along and roll for it while they shouldn't... this doesnt need to be discussed coz the felstriker and deathstriker are more suited for roques. ok 5 dps difference but u will easiely make up for that with the crit chance those weapons got. + casters who want this item can make far better use of it then a roque ever can. So to prevent anymore stupid statements get ur head out of ur ass be4 u post.

Comment by Allakhazam

any rogue that rolls on this is a moron. and this is coming from a 60 rogue.

Comment by Allakhazam

Honestly the damage on this is not that great. The speed is way to fast for a mainhand weapon, and that stats suck too much to use it in your offhand.

A barman shanker will do much better bs/ambush damage, and is a helluva lot easier to get.

Comment by Allakhazam

Im a 48 shaman and I dont care who rolls on it just as long as i get the chance as well! This thing rox arse for my spec i can reach some mean elemental damage with it since my spec is elemental/restoration it helps me a ton!Im a big fan of % to crit with spells matter of fact i have most my end game gear mapped out and this is one piece of it.
Talent 5% Restoration
Talent 6% Elemental
Gloves 1%
Helm 1%
Cloak 1%
Trinket 2%
Ring x 2 for a total of 2%
This dagger 1%
That is 19% chance to crit with spells not factoring in 250 or better int. A 20%+ chance to crit with a talent that gives my fire/frost/nature damage spells 100% extra damage if i do is nothing to spit at, Not only does this dagger help me reach that but the Dps with windfury and the mana regen to keep me casting DDs and Healing is great! But i could care less who rolls i will have my own eventually!
OO by the way Where the hell is the dragon that drops this!

Edited, Tue Apr 26 12:10:09 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

If you are looking for a pure DPS dagger and you are a melee class, this is the highest:
Perdition's Blade
Perdition's Blade Fang of the Mystics is obviously a caster dagger because of the intellect, spell critical chance, and 4 mana every 5 seconds. It is great if you want to hold an offhand orb or whatever since staves are 2H weapons.
Also, this is a great 1H weapon for casters:
Azuresong Mageblade
Azuresong Mageblade my $0.02.

Edited, Sat Apr 30 19:28:48 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

... Why would any hunter want this? Azuregos drops typhoon aswell, and that's the best melee wep for a hunter imo. I wouldn't even consider to roll on this.

Wtfru, you are just plain stupid.

Edited, Thu May 19 08:02:02 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

This weapon should go to Shamans first, and here is why.

1) Melee DPS Important: Fang is the highest dps caster dagger in the game. Although Shamans are secondary healers, we rely heavily on melee for dps.

2) Alternatives: There are many other alternative weapons for casters, including: Sorcerous Dagger, many staves (Dominance, Amberseal, Benediction, to name a few), Jin'Do's Hexxer, Aurastone Hammer, Azuresong Mageblade, not to mention many pvp weapons. These weapons arent as good for shamans as you can see, because they have less dps.

3) Windflurry: If Windflurry gave 2 extra attacks 20% of the time to two weapons, one slow and one fast, they would end up with the same dps over time (easy to prove mathematically).

However, Windflurry not only gives extra attacks but it also adds +665 attack power, which adds a flat amount of damage to each attack. This extra damage will get added more times over time with a fast weapon because WF will proc more.

4) Flurry Talent: For enhancement Shaman's that don't care about pvp and big hits, a fast weapon speed is great because of the Flurry talent that give a 30% attack speed increase if we gain a crit. If we strike more often, we're going to get a crit more often and get +30% to attack speed more often. If you compare a slow weapon and a fast weapon that both have a dps of 50, they still have the same dps after Flurry, the only difference is the fast weapon will have this speed increase more often.

So in summary, yes the dagger is definitely good for all casters, but it is PERFECT for Shamans and they should be given first priority to get it, especially considering that the other caster weapon alternatives are not that great for Shamans. Non-casters rolling or bidding on this are very stupid and greedy people indeed, especially considering how many high dps daggers and weapons exist now.

Edited, Tue Sep 27 17:18:55 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

this dagger seriously sucks

go to ZG and get Fang of Venoxis. it pwns this in the face and is easier to get.

Comment by Allakhazam

totally got this dagger lastnight
it's pretty much awesome

Comment by Allakhazam

This is a fair bit better for raiding than the Azuresong Mageblade now. Ridiculous ^^

Edited, Tue Jun 6 10:44:26 2006

Comment by Allakhazam

While this dagger would be a nice addition to a rogues arsenal, or a mage, priest or any other dagger using casters, this dagger wouldn't be utilised or couldn't be utilised better than a shaman could. If your raid doesn't have a shaman then it should go to a druid, no druids? then this dagger should be fair game to any other class that could use it or wants it, otherwise get yer grubby meat paws away from it. I feel a rogue has as much claim to this as a priest/mage, the caster wants it for the stats and the rogue for the dps, both are about an equal claim to wanting this imho.

Comment by Allakhazam

I am a rogue and would be embarrased to be seen with this dagger equipped, dps or no. The comparable damage that could be done with this weapon, while providing no special procs is absolutely worthless. I would gurantee you that two felstrikers would do better than one felstriker and this, BECAUSE there is a proc that we could actually use. If I were partied and got this dropped, I would happily pass it to a caster and hope that they get excellent use out of that weapon. DPS isn't everything guys. There are many more factors that affect damage output, and crits are one of them. Rogues rolling on this give the other rogues the stereotype of being immature and greedy, with no thought to anyone else. We aren't all like that. Good luck rolling, casters! I hope to group with you.

I reread the post. GG Prosperus. You'd actually think to use this in your main hand? You are an idiot. Thank you.

Edited, Wed Mar 30 06:04:23 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

Williambeepbeep: "Living in the USA..."

i wouldnt be surpriced that u r living in USA, cuz im not hahaha

Proposterous laffs at Williambeepbeep, what a noob!

i went for a 40 man raid to kill the dragon, the leader said that rogues cannot roll on the dagger, that was fine for me, next time i'll make my own group, and im goin for the dagger.

thats it. bein a rogue, this is the best weapon for dps.

Comment by Allakhazam

I just say if you all want the dagger kill the beast 1000's of time wasting 10000's of hours so everyone has the dagger and there's no agruing. I personaly want the dagger eventually but i still got alot to learn about the game im only a 54 shaman and i dont know alot about fighting in raid groups or in high lvl instances. because i dont read but if and when i go fight this dragon in a raid group i will try my best to get the item as fairly as possible if it drops.

Comment by Allakhazam

Anyone who said this dagger is best for a Rogue has one of three problems:

1 - they cannot read
2 - their brain cannot process simple thought patterns
3 - they don't have the slightest inkling of how to play their class

Firstly, there are AT LEAST 3 daggers in this game that are better backstab/ambush daggers than this one. Yes, it has the highest DPS in the game for a dagger. Does this mean it is the best BS/ambush dagger? NO... What makes a good dagger is the MAXIMUM DAMAGE. So rogues that can actually read and know about other weapons would see that this dagger is not amazing, and honestly, if someone saw a rogue with this dagger equipped they would think you're a total newb.

Secondly, the stats of this dagger.. Hmmmm lets see how good they are for a rogue:

+1% crit chance with SPELLS: ROGUES YOU DO NOT HAVE SPELLS THIS DOES NOT HELP YOU.

+10 Intellect: ROGUES INTEL IS NOT AN EFFECTIVE STAT FOR YOU.

+4 mana every 5 secs: ROGUES YOU DO NOT HAVE MANA!

So... the only reason a rogue would roll on this is for DPS... well ok i will say you rogues can roll on this if there is NO shamans/druids/priests/mages in the group, good luck killing azuregos without us.

Thirdly, read the name. It is called the FANG OF MYSTICS. ARE YOU A MYSTIC? NO. Now please, if you're a rogue and you think you have rolling rights on this dagger you should take your keyboard and shove it up your anus.

And warriors... don't even joke about it ;)

Yes, life does suck for rogues when fighting azuregos. I'm sorry there are no drops for you. You really should go and kill Kazzak who has the best Rogue neck/gloves/1h mace drops in the game.

Comment by Allakhazam

Drops from Azuregos.

All rogues who roll on it must be @#$%^slapped, blacklisted and defamed.

Comment by Allakhazam

it is a caster dague realy nice for mage or priest not for rogue

Comment by Allakhazam

That's the dumbest thing i ever heard. It's not the best rogue dagger, i'll admit but it has a great dps and any rogue would be stupid not to roll on it if they dont have a better one.
Rogues use daggers. N before G. PERIOD.

Comment by Allakhazam

i have never seen such hatred spawned from an item but you know what the first time i see a rogue with this i know more than a few players that are going to /ignore them and that persons entire guild. well thats my 2 cents

Comment by Allakhazam

Casters first
Casters dont want it?
Hunters next in line
Hunters dont want it?
Rogues/Warriors
Rogues/Warriors dont want it?
FFA

WHY would a ROGUE with NO mana get priority over a hunter on this? While only 1 effect isnt usable for hunters, all 3 are worthless for rogues (+10 intel, Passive effects)

Casters obv. first, please dont let me explain that.

Comment by Allakhazam

is if you're a rogue and even consider this weapon, you need to step back and evaluate your character just a little bit. anyone arguing the point of this being good for rogues is just stupid, i don't CARE what the damage on it is, you're robbing a caster of a weapon they will get the maximum use out of. high dps dagger does not = rogue. take a look at a nice chunk of the daggers and swords in this game, not all of them are made for melee classes. they may have dps, but it is damn clear what type of classes they are for. any melee class or hunter(yes, i say hunter because while they too use mana and need intellect, they don't need these things nearly as much as a mage or warlock do) with a caster weapon is either greedy, stupid or both.

Comment by Allakhazam

im a mage and got it, the purple glow goes well with the color of my arcanist robe :), have it enchanted with +30spell power, so it is allmost like azuresong,
dont look at stats of this dagger, it's a prestige dagger

Comment by Allakhazam

Druids play Healers for high-end content so this is defaulted to Shamans in my guild.

Comment by Allakhazam

1% critic for a mage = 100 intellect . its very precious . i know this is a great dagger for a rogue and if they roll on it i understand

Comment by Allakhazam

To quote:

" A barman shanker will do much better bs/ambush damage"

The facts:

At level 58, Ambush does "250% weapon damage plus 290 to the target"

At level 60, backstab does "150% weapon damage plus 210 to the target."

So...

Barman Shanker: 51-95 damage(Avg. 73)
Fang of the Mystics: 54-101 damage(Avg. 77.5)

Ambush with BS: (2.5 * 73) + 290 = 472.5
Ambush with FOTM: (2.5 * 77.5) + 290 = 483.75

Backstab with BS: (1.5 * 73) + 210 = 319.5
Backstab with FOTM: (1.5 * 77.5) + 210 = 326.25

So according to you, 472.5 > 483.75, and 319.5 > 326.25!

The only thing dumber than your original statement "A barman shanker will do much better bs/ambush damage(than FOTM)" would be you saying that my numbers are wrong due to the proc of "100 damage over 30 seconds" on the Shanker. Now who's the noob?

P.S. This also doesn't even account for the fact that Rogue Weapons with DOTS on them are complete garbage, as they can cause things to recover from shackle undead and polymorph. The 3 damage per second DOT on the Barman Shanker is much more of a liability than boon.

Comment by Allakhazam

in a non-pickup raid, there will be rules already for rolling or distrubuting loot. so that depends on your guild or whatever. if I were the loot officer of a guild, I would not restrict this dagger to only casters. however, I would give non-enhancement shamans priority and casters/rogue could roll secondary. if we used DKP I would let anybody except warriors and hunters spend DKP on this (and paladins obviously, they can't even equip a dagger).

in a pickup raid, the only people who should be looked down upon (and probably labelled a ninja looter) for rolling on this are the ones who will just vendor it for 10g. a rogue would find a lot of use for this as as offhand dagger (about as good as scarlet kris or bonescraper, though personally I would prefer one of those two even though they're harder to get).

on my shaman I would definitely roll for this. it's an endgame shaman weapon. on my rogue I would not roll for it, but only because I like to avoid drama. if it weren't for all the idiots out there, I would DEFINITELY use this on my rogue. on my priest I would not roll if there was a shaman present.

I've seen a lot of posts saying this is a rogue-only weapon because of the high end damage and thus is being great for backstab and ambush. they are VERY wrong. this is a terrible backstab/ambush dagger because of the speed and the way attack power bonus works. barman shanker is the best BS/ambush dagger and it's easy to get. next you have ones like heartseeker, felstriker etc. this sucks as a rogue mainhand dagger.

I also see a lot of posts saying this is a TERRIBLE rogue weapon and no rogue should use this. they point out that it would be terrible for BS/ambush which is true. you're wrong too, though. this is an endgame OFFHAND rogue dagger because of the speed and dps. your offhand dagger should be as fast as possible to apply more poisons. it should also have good dps.

Edited, Sun Apr 17 19:28:17 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

w
t
f
?

Comment by Allakhazam

Im a rogue and i'll definitely roll on this one, maybe the effect is not good, but it has the best dmg. the rules are simple, is better than what u have? if so, then roll

Comment by Allakhazam

Yes, the mods on this dagger are clearly geared towards us casters, however, the damage/dps is also VERY nice for a rogue. The fact that there are people slinging mud over rogues rolling on this item (and item that they CAN use should it be better than what they have) are clearly greedier than the rogues they are bashing. It's just like any other item in game that multiple classes can use.. someone is always gonna be pissed when the item drops and the other class outrolls them.

Comment by Allakhazam

I'm sorry but there are better daggers for rogues. OTOH plz show me better 1h for druid. Rogues SHOULD not roll for it cause it will be temporary upg for them while druid/shammy would use it fo god knows how long. I'd blacklist rogues rolling on this.

PS. Am a priest ;p

Comment by Allakhazam

Rogues: This daggers max damage is too low to be a good backstab or SS weapon

LOL LOL LOL

Better DPS has only gutgore ripper <
Gutgore Ripper and the same have felstriker, but how to found and won in roll it ?

That is the reason to roll on fang of the mystics.

Comment by Allakhazam

Everyone would need that dagger should roll.

Stop to try to justify with one one side dps and min/max dmg and on the other side the stats.

There are BOTH things, damages and stats.

Stats are interesting for casters, so casters can roll.
Damages and dps are interesting for rogues, so rogues can roll.

Blizzard is just stupid, like if they take fun by looking players fighting for that item.
Why it's not a staff? (playable with off hand maybe..ok ^^ ). Why they didn't added this little "Class : Shaman, Warlock, Mage, priest" on it? Why they didn't lowered damages and DPS like they did for that dagger in the chest of the seven (clearly a caster dagger).

I'm rogue myself, that thing is interesting in terms of damages (and if i could have Felstriker i wouldn't roll on that one), and i understand that casters may find that interesting too.

Comment by Allakhazam

it is bloody ownage now, glad i kept it, was even using wushoolay's poker for healing

Comment by Allakhazam

This would be a great weapon for a druid! With Omen of Clarity on Nature's Grace in conjunction, he'd be a dangerous person!

Comment by Allakhazam

Definitely a caster dagger. You rogues seem to forget that if you have a dagger that adds a decent amount of agility, it'll have more DPS than this dagger. Save casters a break and pass on it.

Comment by Allakhazam

Nice dagger even for rog, but would'nt roll if a shaman or druid in the group...

Comment by Allakhazam

Lets put it this way: If you kill the dragon, and this drops, the Master Looters is going to make sure this goes to a caster.

Comment by Allakhazam

Stop looking at the bloody DPS!
Rogues: This daggers max damage is too low to be a good backstab or SS weapon
Warriors: Typhoon
Warlocks/Mages/Priests: Unless you acutally are a Soul Link and Fire stone lock, Don't roll.
Paladins: You're evil and don't deserve this!
Shaman: You probably can use this better than anyone.
Druid: Check out the staff Kazzak drops.
Hunter: AHAHAHAHAHA!

Comment by Allakhazam

It's crap for a lvl60 epic weapeon (except for DPS) - same goes with other lvl60 epic drops from MC and the new Outdoors.
Any rouge can roll for it, caster dont really want it.

Dunno what blizz is thinking, but i think its pretty blue not purple.

Comment by Allakhazam

Hunter ninja'd from my raid group. Gheyyy. the Mage wanted it. Probably would have taken typhoon too if the master looter hadn't ninja'd it and hearthed.

Comment by Allakhazam

Great for druids too. :)

Comment by Allakhazam

Im a rogue and that up dmg is awesome. 101 dmg Will roll on it.

Comment by Allakhazam

This would more than likely go to a shaman on the horde side. As a priest I'd love it but realistically overall it'd prob be best suited for a shaman. Btw unless you're on a pickup azuregos raid that somehow wins (although I'm not sure how hard he is) no one would be rolling.

Comment by Allakhazam

Clearly, this is Monk gear.

Comment by Allakhazam

This is barely better than the shanker due to +3 min damage and +6 max damage for Backstab, ss, and ambush, dps doesn't matter, only the minimum and maximum damage.

I think sacrificing this epic dagger that can be put to very good use by a caster and which only has a *chance* of dropping from a monster with a many days respawn timer for a very slightly lesser dagger than you can go farm with two rogues very easily isn't too much to ask.

Comment by Allakhazam

It all depends on play style. I'm a caster (warlock) and I think this weap would be great for me... quit telling us that we (some casters in general) don't do enough melee fighting to constitute using this: MY play style involves melee. What happens when I'm out of mana? Or the mob gets up close and personal and I can't get a spell off as fast as I can slashing the hell outta it? I fight melee using my dagger and wand. If I can't use some of my spells, you better believe I want to have something kick ass in my hand in order to survive. Not to mention in PvP I can't always stand back and just cast since most PvP or duels are gonna be in close proximity. I do agree that DPS isn't always everything in a weap- the caster stats are nice and I think it's good for a caster, but I have no problems with other classes using this- even rogues or hunters as hunters could use the mana regen as well. It all depends on play style. Just because x class is x type doesn't mean the person playing that class doesn't play it a little differently to suit their style. Shouldn't roll just because it's "OMG UBER!" but should roll if you intend to use it. Quit telling people how to play their class- even if you're of the same class because everyone plays differently. Just because you don't see a use for it the way you play a doesn't mean someone else plays exactly like you and should think like you. They may play differently and put it to good use.

Comment by Allakhazam

There is no reason whatever build to roll on this if you're a caster, why? The reason for getting this kind of gear is not solo intended but to make sure you have the best possible gear when doing MC/Onyxia.
Oh you want this for solo PvP or PvE? YOU GO KILL THE DRAGON YOURSELF!

Don't be a selfish bastard and whatever build you may have there is NONE that gives a caster viability for this dagger since your main dps outcome is NOT melee DPS but MAGIC. FFS.
This is a pure melee dagger, shaman, warrior, rogue, NOT hunter NOT DRUID since they do dmg with feral NOT daggers. What kind of gimp Hunter requires 1hand melee weap? :P

Comment by Allakhazam

I don't know what everyone is getting roiled up about... Blizz is due to do an reitemization of Molten Core and Onyxia, as shown here:

Most of the non-class set items that dropped from Molten Core and Onyxia have had their effective levels increased, resulting in higher DPS weapons, and/or better stats and effects.

That is from the Test Server notes, and based on that info, the current drops in there will become on par or (more likely IMO) much better than the "caster" items from Azuregos and Kazzak (the Amberseal Keeper).

Edited, Sat Apr 16 00:32:34 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

This Weapon might be good for druids, but Druids should come as one of the last in row.
Mainly because, any druid who uses wrath - moonfire nukes during a raid are not 2 smart, why would a druid waste mana on nukes that doesnt even damage that much? Druids has to save their mana for healing unless you wont to run out fast. Aka we dont need the increased Crit strike.

Comment by Allakhazam

why? is the first post i see under any epic item on allakhazam "zOMg ttHIs ise 4 <insert class here>!111one if u roLE on dis u r SEw BLAKLISTED WTFPWNEDBBQ" geeze. it is the raid master's responsibility to decide who gets what. if the raid master says a rogue can role on a caster dagger and they win it congragulate them and rexamine why you are in this particular raid group. people should start blacklisting raid leaders who let people have stupid crap they don't need.

Comment by Allakhazam

Won this one it's first drop on Spinebreaker. Unfortunately that was just before DM loot started to make an appearance. Ever since I got Rod of the Ogre Magi, this has made a slow move from sometimes used, to in backpack, to bank... and it is flirting with the vendor now. Only thing I EVER use it for is with Magebane Scion for Ragnaros (more for the fire resist then anything else) Wish now that I would have let a Shaman have it. Better, easier items available for mage. Kind of a crappy epic.

Comment by Allakhazam

Me as a mage would not roll for this weapon.
I got almost the same stats form a easy to get sword in maraudon. Also Id curse any rogue rolling on this its clearly a shaman weapon. (im horde yes)

Comment by Allakhazam

As a meleeing warlock (soul linked + firestone), you bet your ass I'll be rolling on this dagger ;)

Comment by Allakhazam

shammy shammy shammy

we want pure dps in weapons, we <3 the 1h/shield combo, +1% chance to crit with spells is AWESOME (I'm elemental/restor, 1100+ shocks pwn your face), I'll take int whenever I can get it, if you get a few mana regen items like this they really add up during MC/Onyxia etc because you can regen while casting unlike spirit with the 5s rule.

so yeah ...

shammy shammy shammy

Comment by Allakhazam

Correct me if I'm wrong but last time I checked, +10 intellect and a chance to get criticals with SPELLS and something that restores MANA sounds like a caster item to me. Yes, it's great for melee fighters too because of DPS, but DPS is not everything. Casters have just as much right to this item as anyone else, especially if they can use it and it's better than the weap they have. A staff is a melee weapon, too, and yet you have no problems with us having THAT kind of melee weapon? As a warlock, my character starts off with a dagger in its hand. Not only is it the first and original melee weap that a warlock knows instinctively (I'd have to go train for staves), but the fang of mystics also has good caster stats. Are there better weaps out there for casters? Sure. Does it mean I have said better item and don't deserve this one? No. Are there weaps out there with better enhancements suited for warriors or rogues? (last time I checked, MANA regen or a better chance for casting cricital SPELLS had no benefit for a warrior or rogue whatsoever) Of course there are, so your logic here is flawed. Just because it has high DPS does not mean that it's not good for a caster type or that a caster can't use it... if that were the case, why would Blizz put caster enhancements on it? And nowhere does this weapon say it's ONLY meant to be used for MC/Onyxia. You're trying to tell me that if you were to get this as a drop that you'd ONLY use it for MC/Onyxia? ROFL riiiiight.

Bottom line? If this weap was meant for a few specific classes ONLY, Blizz would have put a restriction on it as such, but that's not the case... so who are you to tell one class they have no right to it over another? If someone finds use in it or planned to use it, they have just as much right as anyone else. Just because you don't agree with someone else's play style doesn't mean they're wrong. Thanks for sharing your opinion on what you think the dagger is best for, but please remember that it's only that: an opinion.

Edited, Thu Apr 7 16:34:54 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

ok if you macro a bagstab this dagger isent the thingy you need. becouse you can screw DPS its the real dam you want this one does only 54-101
but if you take a dagger like the Gutgore Ripper 63-119 it got a higher dam becouse of a slower atack speed if i ever see a rouge wilding this dagger..... The End

Edited, Tue Apr 12 04:50:32 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

What ever, leave it to melee people to take all the good weapons because they disreguard the fact that a weapon is a caster weapon and not a melee weapon. I love it when warriors think a staff that regenerates 11 mana every 5 seconds is a warrior weapon because it does 63 DPS. There are alot of uneducated poeple who play this game. This is a caster weapon so stop trying to take everything rogues/warriors/paladins. I'm getting sick of the people saying that even though it gives mana per second its a warrior weapon. Stop taking things that arent yours.

Comment by Allakhazam

Will someone please stop to consider Hunters?

Yes i agree we shouldnt get first choice of the weapon but please spare us a thought. Once we hit lvl 30 our mana usage is greatly increased. Not only this but ranged combat is not possible in every situation.

The high dps would be great for us as we rely on a high damage output, duel wielding this weapon would be very effective in melee. Agreed, the +1% crit chance on spells is no use to us, however the +10 intelligence would be excellent as it would provide a much needed mana increase, also the mana regen would be very useful for obvious reasons. For a pvping hunter this weapon would be an awesome addition to the rest of their gear. Also it would come in handy in group pve because there are times when a hunter has to stand in and melee. Although our ranged dps is far superior to our melee dps, ranged combat is not always practical in some situations.

I personally believe hunters should come before rogues/warriors/palas when considering who should recieve this weapon.

Shaman should definitly get first choice/offer of this weapon but please dont disregard the needs of hunters, and remember, a hunter's mana drops at an alarming rate during combat.

Comment by Allakhazam

it got 40dmg/healing now after 1.10
pretty imba

Comment by Allakhazam

i play a rogue, and a shaman. any rogue that thinks this is a good main hand or even offhand dagger is stupid.

i dont want this dagger on any of my characters (shaman being geared towards enhancement with a 2hander) but it'd be perfect on an elemental build shammy.

Comment by Allakhazam

Me as a mage would not roll for this weapon.
I got almost the same stats form a easy to get sword in maraudon. Also Id curse any rogue rolling on this its clearly a shaman weapon. (im horde yes)

Comment by Allakhazam

if u r not a rogue, u'll never know what r u lookin for.

my first char was a rogue, i b4 considerin anything else, i preffer this dagger, why? simple dps, this dagger is faster than heartseeker (which is not ez to get for everyone) that means more chance for poison. this weapon has also a wilder range, that means more on ambus and backstab.

conclusion, rogue can use it, by that i mean dagger rogues, not those lazy sword rogue that uses CS ss ss evis.

and let me tell u something else, if u think that felstriker is that ez to get, then make a rogue to 60 and then find a party to get it!

and dont talk too much if u r not a rogue.

Comment by Allakhazam

if you need intellect, mana regen and a crit chance and u can use a dagger, shut the hell up and roll on it :D

Comment by Allakhazam

Shaman > Warlock > Druid > Mage > Priest

Edited, Fri May 20 00:51:58 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

Too fast for main hand, too slow for off hand. A rogue who rolls on this over casters that are going to use it is a greedy bastard.

And yes, I play a rogue.

Comment by Allakhazam

Good caster weapon...got this on Dragonmaw a few weeks ago.

Comment by Allakhazam

I'm a 60 shaman, and I have both this and Aurastone hammer. Is one better than the other? No. They are both good, for different situations.

Aurastone is a superior healing weapon, no doubt about it. If I'm in MC or healing for an instance, I'd use Aurastone without a second though.

However, Fang is great for PVP. Spell crit and 51.7 dps. Cuts through caster armour like nothing else. Procs a lot of windfuries.

Same thing for dueling. Against a plate/mail shield wearing opponent, I'll go for the slower weapon because of a higher damage range. Spellcasters, faster weapon with lower damage range.

I agree, this dagger is fairly poor for any pure caster class, or any pure melee class. If you look at it, it has obviously been designed with a hybrid in mind. High dps and spell crit? Is there a clearer way of sticking "Hybrid" on it?

Saying it is crap is, in essence, very narrow minded. It's like saying a quel'serrar sucks for a mage, or a perditions blade sucks for a warlock.
If you aren't giving things to the right classes, of course they're going to seem crap.

Comment by Allakhazam

i'd roll on it even though i'm a rogue, i'm currently using a caster dagger but it has 34+ DPS.

Comment by Allakhazam

terrible rogue dagger (i play a 60 rogue)

this is an aweful offhand compared to bonescraper (which adds 30 AP, much better for a dagger or sword rogue - and is FAR easier to acquire) and a pitiful mainhand compared to shanker or heartseeker (anyone who uses a 1.5 speed mainhand dagger as a rogue should reroll)

honestly: best for a shaman or druid.
also great for a mage, priest or lock
useless for a rogue

Comment by Allakhazam

Rougue are you kidding me?

Comment by Allakhazam

wow, it was absolute crap before... now it's absolute pwnage

Comment by Allakhazam

Is a shaman or druid dagger. Shammys/Druids are the only casters that melee often enough to use it. Any rogues who roll on it will be blacklisted.

Comment by Allakhazam

I have yet to laugh so hard at some of the idiotic comments left by people here.

And Proposterous, you're the gem of stupidity here. Simple fact, if you want to apply poisons more, you get a speedier dagger, there are several daggers 1.40 and a few even faster at 1.30, and one at 1.20 I believe.

Who does this best go too? This game is not geared like EQ, there are lots of viable options. Shaman, Paladin, Druid, Mage, and yes, to a lesser extent, maybe Rogues. Honestly, I'd rather see this go to a f'ing hunter before a rogue, they'd utilize it more then a rogue in my eyes. But, the final decision is up to a guild/raid leader, and this thread so far has proved without a doubt one point I've always held true:

Pickup raids are the single stupidest idea in the world of Azeroth. No good comes from them. Get friends, guild members, people you trust. You pick from the random army of unknowns, and *!@# like this happens.

Comment by Allakhazam

this dagger does the second most amount of damage in the game for daggers. therefore, it is the best backstab/ambush dagger in the game. there are other daggers that come close at 49-93 like the kel'seris one, but this does, handsdown, the most damage for a dagger.

Comment by Allakhazam

I've read this whole first page (yes i'm lazy, and in school, so sue me if someone has written this pre. me) and not one mention thus far about the off-hand equip that CLOTHWEARERS WILL USE, unless extremely crack-skulled or something, together with this dagger. Many of you, presumably, rouges out there are right; +10int ain't all that.. until you stack it with a off-hand item that brings you another +10, and +12stmn, AND +10spr (sometimes more, sometimes less, you get my point). Didn't think of that, now did you?

And what do you think we do when we've fought off our fair share off mobs and some more come picking on us, with a mana-pool of exactly 0.5 spell left, do we yell at them in hope of them getting intimidated? Do we kick their kneecaps and hope they get crippled so we can run away? Do we maybe trow dirt in their face to just piss them off? No, we try to melee our sorry ass out of there. How do we do that? Well, certainly not by using a poor piece-of-crap 2.6DPS-dagger gotten on a random-drop at level 3. So, yes, a clothwearer should have a first-priority on this. 'Cuz I, for one, don't want to yell my enemies to death anymore.. my vocal cords are getting sore.

Comment by Allakhazam

*sigh* this is why I hate backstab rogues, they always skew the math...

true, I (as an SS rogue) would love to equip something with this high a DPS in my OFFHAND (I'll stick with my dream weap, the Empyrean Demolisher, for my mainhand thank you very much) I do believe (believe, not mathematically demonstrate) that the proc on the Felstriker would make it a superior offhand weapon to this one...

so....just a rogue coming in here to say that though this would be a very nice weapon for my endgame (possibly the best offhand for me) I would always pass on it as it would be far more useful to casters

(now to just pray that pallies and warriors can see it that way when I beg for the Demolisher someday)

Comment by Allakhazam

if this dagger was 12dps it would be just as useful to a caster.... but its not 12dps. its the highest DPS dagger in the game. How much of an upgrade is this dagger over this lvl 48 item?

Inventor's Focal Sword
Binds when picked up
One-Hand Sword
54 - 101 Damage Speed 2.20
(35.2 damage per second)
+6 Intellect
Requires Level 48
Passive: Improves your chance to get a critical strike with
spells by 1%.

Comment by Allakhazam

A dagger that causes hatred, envy, back-biting, horrid viciousness and generally brings out the worst in human existance... that drops off a mob that causes the exact same thing! Wow...

I wont go on a raid for this mob. Ever. Period.

Comment by Allakhazam

This is the BEST shaman dagger in the game. Secondary, it's a caster dagger.

Anyone else rolling or bidding on this before these people get what they need should be kicked out of their guild.

Comment by Allakhazam

The fact is, daggers aren't very good for shamans in the first place. High speed = crap with windfury. I have this and the Aurastone Hammer and the hammer (despite being 44dps instead of 51) does a buttload more damage with windfury on it.

Windfury favours slow weapons with high top end damage, which the fang of mystics does not have. Still a great dagger for pvp when you're not doing much melee (spell crit ftw) and just tossing in chain lightnings as well as shocks and heals, but generally... I don't have it equipped.

Comment by Allakhazam

SHAMANS: WF: The reason you want a slow but high-damage weapon is because you want to deal 3x 500 damage, not 3x 200. The effects of attack power are increased if your weapon speed is longer, and the slower weapons also have higher base DPS. So no, this is NOT a Shaman weapon *IF YOU'RE A WINDFURY BUILD* (or rely on it to any extent).

SHAMANS: Non-WF: Crit Shocks and C-L are nice - in PvP or PvE with healing, this is a good weapon choice.

DRUIDS/MAGES/WARLOCKS: Crit on Spells is ALL Spells. Includes Healing AND Damage. So Druids, being that they can't wield Swords, should get this over Mages or Warlocks - who can both get Azuresong Mageblade. HOWEVER - being that drop rates for these Epics are as low as they are - any caster who CAN equip this, and wants to, should be allowed to roll if they have the DKP at their disposal.

Shadowfang
60 Druid, Dragonmaw Server.

Comment by Allakhazam

if blizz doesnt change the arathi reputation/pvp rewards before patch, then the Sageclaw will be better than the Fang (except for the dps, but thats useless in endgame pve raids). that's REALLY sad...

why is an epic that drops off a worldboss that spawns 2x a week for an ENTIRE server at a droprate of 11%, inferior to some reputation reward that you can grind?

*sigh* blizz itemization FTW!

Comment by Allakhazam

I think this item is fantastic for casters.

I play a priest, and before i got Benediction, i used the Lorespinner + Penelope's Rose.

i would use this over sorcerous dagger because i liked Crit a little better (Even Benediction has crit on it) than the heal power.

i guess it's best for whatever your build is =)

Comment by Allakhazam

do u have rogue or u dont? if u dont then shut ur month and ur hand.

if i can get that dagger, it will be on my main hand. something bout poison is that more u strike the higher chance to apply the poison. since lv 25 (or so) i've been usin poison, and the problem was always the offhand, cuz some type of poison will be "wasted" since u dont have enuf time to use it up. BUT, the main hand even if is a bloodrazor, with 120 charges, i can use it up. so, as i said, if u dont know bout rogues, shut ur monitor and go for more simple games such as pacman.

let me remind u something, the policy so far in this game for rollin is "if is upgrade, and u can use it, then roll"

now who do u think u r to break that rules simply cuz the dagger has attributes that r useless to a rogue? the dps is all.

Comment by Allakhazam

Okay it seems like alot of people are saying the same things. Let's get some facts out: Warlocks, Mages, Priests - they do not melee. Therefore, the highest DPS dagger in the game is utterly useless for that purpose.

DPS is very important for Rogues, Druids and Shaman. This particular dagger has an incredibly high max and minimum damage on it therefore increasing the amount of backstab and ambush damage that occurs (for rogue classes obviously). Not to mention the weapon is faster than Barman's (which allows for more chances to apply poison because you're striking more often).

There are numerous staves and other weapons for casters that are better than this weapon. Think about how broken this dagger would have been if it was speced for a rogue. The majority of daggers I see people using like the Darrowspike have horrible proc abilities - the reason people use those daggers are for the DPS, not the proc abilities, so stop telling rogues the crappy abilities on this dagger matter.

In the end, if a cloth wearer were to roll on this dagger, I would shoot them for being so stupid. You can find better weapons.

Comment by Allakhazam

WOW u gys suk MAGES/Warlocks first priests/shamans second rogues stfu and 4get it priests dont need crit as bad as mages/locks as WE ARE CRIT BASED. wow its high dps grats 4 us. i got this and rolled a 100 lol a rogue rolled a 91 and was blacklisted gg u lose and get blacklisted? ha do rogues need crit? NO do rogues need intell? NO do rogues even have mana? NO and 1%crit may not sound like a lot but most of my gear has crit so it adds nicely i had a total of 29% crit with my gear and im a mage

Comment by Allakhazam

Hey, it don't matter what you are..just roll on it if you want it. People are such cry babies in the game.

Comment by Allakhazam

If you look at longterm usage, speed does NOT matter. Easily proven by math.

But for PVP high burstdamage is good.

Comment by Allakhazam

Edited, Tue May 9 18:35:26 2006

Comment by Allakhazam

Hmmm.. and DPS is for casters? Haha that's a good one. I'd definately use this as a rogue because of the absolutely huge amount of damage it does.

Comment by Allakhazam

While a rogue can roll on this, does it really make sense to piss off all the casters you just grouped with for this kill, just for a few DPS on an item that is CLEARLY not intended for you... greedy is one thing, greedy and stupid however... thats an alliance trait.

Comment by Allakhazam

(sorry, listed twice)

Edited, Sat Mar 26 16:21:26 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

Hey you dumb @#$%ers. This is just as much a rogue dagger as it is anything else. You casters need to stop @#$%ting your pants over this. that mana regen is total crap, and you know it. the Intel bonus on this will not beat the stats you can get on a 2h staff, not to mention there are no caster enchants for 1h weapons. and 1% chance to crit? OMFG! HOW AMAZING! yeah. you spells will crit once out of a hundered times more often than they did before with this dagger. So that means it MUST be worth more to any of you than to a rogue who will be doing 10 DPS more than what they could with the best blue item. and don't give me this &*!@ about other weapons in MC being better for rogues, cause not everyone that plays this game is going to play MC for three days for a slim to none chance at a comparable weapon. And barman shanker? %^&* that POS. DOTs are the last thing any smart rogue would want on a dagger, because it breaks gouge, and if you don't know why that's important, you're too stupid/uninformed to be debating this. so all you 12 year olds need to %^&*ing calm down, since you're not smart enough to know what stats do for your class.

edit:

I don't know how the abilities for paladins and shaman work with DPS verse actual damage, so I can't say I have an opinion about them rolling on this. However, druids using a 1h weapon for the dps? that's idiotic. Druids can't dual wield, and they can't hold shields. So they need to keep their paws off as well.

My ruling: this is a shaman/rogue dagger, nothing else.

Edited, Wed Mar 30 05:47:00 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

I really want to be rude, it would actually follow the tone of most
post in this thread but I won't.

Here are the basic facts as to what are the best rogue daggers and
this one dagger is not part of them.

Based on the rogue FAQ located here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=7&p=1&tmp=1#post7

You get per strike a your dps attack power bonus. Since the weapon
speed doesn't affect the frequency at which you can sinister strike or
backstab, you end up having the dps bonus from attack power MULTIPLIED
by the speed of the weapon.

Basically if you have a 1.5 speed weapon, you will get 1.5 times the
DPS bonus from your attack power added to the base damage of the
strike and possibly multiplied by some other factor like 1.5 (or 20%
more with opportunity) from backstab or even 2.5 from ambush.

Now if we're talking about a 2.0 speed weapon, you get your attack
power bonus multiplied by two which is better. Now it is to evaluate
is it more interesting to have a faster weapon but much higher base
dps or a slower weapon with even lower dps to get that big bonus from
attack power.

The answer is to get the slowest weapon the possible as some level 60s
can have anywhere between 450-650 attack power accounting for some
30-45dps bonus from attack power. Resulting in 45 base damage weapon
for a 1.5 speed weapon or 60 base damage weapon for a 2.0 speed
weapon. Now I'm telling you one thing. That's 15 base damage more, 3
times the best enchant you can get (for straight dmg enchant) and that
15 damage can be multiplied by some other factor. It can be even more
the higher the attack power you get.

Now that weapon has the same base damage as the Felstriker but is a
worse weapon because felstriker is slower... which is better.

The following are all better dagger for backstabing/ambushing/sinister
striking than Fang of the Mystics:

Barman Shanker
Felstriker (only the proc itself makes it better than Barman Shanker)
Gutgore Ripper (best atm: https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=36280)

Even better than Gutgore Ripper accounting for weapon speed alone is
the newly to come dagger off the PvP System in next patch:
The Grand Marshall's Dirk:
http://worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/images/honor-system/ssweapons.jpg

What saddens me the most is some of the very rude reply by some of you
guys, that sadly hadn't read the fact and unfortunately didn't know
what they were talking about.

Now I'm telling you one thing, Fang of the Mystics will indeed strike
33% more often than barman shanker, but your chance to proc a poison
is 30%, so basically your damage ouput from poison overall from the
main hand will be increased by 10%, and much less than that if you
take into account the number of proc from SS and from off-hand... that
gain in damage is meaningless compared to the gain in damage from the
base damage bonus from attack power each sinister
strike/backstab/ambush. End of the story.

That dagger for rogue is at best a good off-hand weapon but the mods
on distracting dagger makes it better and easier to get. It's a godly
weapon for a shaman.

Don't roll on it if your a rogue.

Comment by Allakhazam

RacialCreamer/Snake, I really wish I was on your server just so I could roll on felstriker just cuz i can use it. You're a noob. This really isn't that Godly for a rogue as you are so desperately trying to say. If I were leading a raid and this dagger dropped mage/priest/warlock/druid/(shaman if I were horde) would roll on it. That's it. If every caster passed on it for whatever reason, Rogues AND Hunters would be allowed to roll.

Comment by Allakhazam

Curse blizz for making a dagger high dps and have mana regen/spell crit %. Anyway i think Casters should have first dibs, then shaman/rogues, then hunters etc. You hunters are ranged, stick with your bow/gun drops and stop trying to steal our daggers. I dont roll on guns before a hunter does. Besides hunters ninja everything anyway =P

Comment by Allakhazam

OK, I see all this math and talk about > for this and > then that.

Stop arguing, look at the dagger.

+10 Int
+1% Crit with a spell
+restores 4 mana every 5 seconds.

We can all do a %^&* load of math for whatever reason we think that it's better for this class or that. But read those stats right there.
3/4 of the stats on that dagger (other then DPS)are suited for a caster.

As A Mage, I's &*!@ a brick If I got the Drop. +10 Int aswell as 4 mana every 5 secs and to boot a +1% chance to crit. Im a mainly frost spec mage and Like the lock mentioned earlier, we have effects and talents that allow crit chance to be increased already, then you add +1% to you weapon aswell that's a VERY good stat to have on your weapon. Sure the DPS is higher, but in all fairness, gimme a *!@#in break, That is clearly a dagger meant for a caster, and if A rogue roled on it, then he's a noob for not looking at stats that matter to others aswell, and he's a douchbag for being a pric to roll on a dagger that he will only get DPS out of. If you think im wrong then blow me, cause the guys that posted here that a rogues and have stuck up for it being a caster dagger cleary have more common sense then you, and i'd say by the sound of it know alot more about their class then you do. I asked around on my realm to some good rogues and asked if they would roll on this, Most of them said, "Ya if there wasnt a caster there that needed it or could use it."

This is a dumb argument

Comment by Allakhazam

if shamans claim felstriker is a shaman weapon also why cant the rogues also use it

Comment by Allakhazam

dang double post ;)

Edited, Wed Apr 6 11:12:49 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

After much deliberation I have come up with official order for distribution of the dagger. It is unfortunate that Blizzard made such a weapon but have crated this situation. Failure to follow this order makes you scum:).

1. Rogues/Shaman. It is pretty much a tossup here both benefit from the dps quite a bit with the rogue getting the most bang for the buck from the dps, but the shaman actually can use the mana and critical strike and int. Technically the shaman maybe should win out here perhaps because the bonuses arent wasted on a hybrid caster.
2. Warriors benefit from the dps though not as much key to their role as the above. But, increased damage = increased aggro so yeah there is some good group friendly reasons to justify a tank with this.
3. other Magic users. The mana and int and such are nice but really be honest you can do as well or better with other items that arent dps.

So there you have it other than the Shaman vs Rogue issue it is very clear the way you must distribute this item unless you want to be a punk:). jk.

Comment by Allakhazam

WOW u gys suk MAGES/Warlocks first priests/shamans second rogues stfu and 4get it priests dont need crit as bad as mages/locks as WE ARE CRIT BASED. wow its high dps grats 4 us. i got this and rolled a 100 lol a rogue rolled a 91 and was blacklisted gg u lose and get blacklisted? ha do rogues need crit? NO do rogues need intell? NO do rogues even have mana? NO and 1%crit may not sound like a lot but most of my gear has crit so it adds nicely i had a total of 29% crit with my gear and im a mage

Comment by Allakhazam

ok, i got this last night, lvl 60 rogue on thunderhorn. NOW BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING, i'm using gutgore mainhand and this offhand. The only reason i received this weapon is because the person who wanted it wasn't eligible to receive it, and no one else on the raid wanted it. We don't ROLL, we use a DKP system. I couldn't let a 51.7 dps offhand be turned into shards, so i said yes. I have a bonescraper for offhand as well, and the loss of 30 AP is eh, it's 2 dmg off my top end (which is now only 225 wah wah). I agree that this is by NO MEANS WHATSOEVER a dagger for rogues, but if IF NO ONE ELSE ON THE RAID wants it, grab it for offhand. The only better offhand is a core hound tooth, good luck scoring the lowest drop rate item from majordomo.

Just to remind you, i only took this because the person who wanted it wasn't eligible, and no one else wanted it. I did not roll on this, i simply spoke up before it was disenchanted. and YES, it is a good offhand for rogues. If you have lousy gear though, stick with a bonescraper.

Comment by Allakhazam

3 days ago this dropped of azuregos. the group i was w/ was gay as hell. The warriors even rolled for this, as did rogues. Luckily tho, a warlock got it, saving me the anger and trouble of having to hunt the warriors down

Comment by Allakhazam

Loot priority:

First: rogue, maybe Shaman (I'm alliance)
Second: DE
Third: If a mage, lock, priest, or hunter wants this, kick them out of your guild.

And no, I'm not being thottish; I'm a 60 mage and would probably end up vendoring this if someone somehow gave me one.

This is a miserable weapon for a damage caster.

The mana regen means that every 4 minutes, you get one extra frostbolt. Get a Quel'dorai Channeling Rod. Or a Lorespinner. Or just for mana, a Trindlehaven, Brightwood, gift of the Elven Magi, or Argent Crusader.

Aside from that, this has about 60 mana over an Inventor's Focal Sword, which doesn't exactly take a 40-man raid of a rare world boss to get.

As far as the 1% crit goes, get a rod of the ogre magi.

There are many easy to get blues as good or better than this dagger.

Hunter: get a dawn's edge with 15 agility. 1% physical crit should do a whole lot more good than a 1% spell crit.

Comment by Allakhazam

Glad DM has a 5man cap, means I'll pretty much be running it exclusively with guildmates. Won't have to worry about any stupid rogues outrolling me. =)

Comment by Allakhazam

that would be like a caster rolling on something with imporved chance of critical melee and increased agi.....

Comment by Allakhazam

It's absolutely incredible that any cloth wearer would call a rogue "greedy" for wanting to use this dagger. There is exactly ONE dagger in the entire game currently that is comparable to this for a Rogue, and that's the "Felstriker". Claims that "extra agility on your class-specific dagger make up for the lack of DPS" are completely ridiculous, as daggers with the highest agility, like Widowmaker, only add a total of 15 attack power. 15 attack power results in maybe one more displayed DPS, whereas this dagger is going to boost your damage output substantially with either hand. The mods are totally irrelevant in this calculation, all that matters is the bottom line: min/max damage, and overall DPS. As for people who might claim "but it has obvious caster mods, and is therefore better for a cloth wearer", I ask this question: since when does a cloth wearer melee anything above like level 30? That's right, you don't, you do all your damage with spells. Which means that the 51.7 DPS is irrelevant, and that you're essentially using an item that gives +10 intellect, about +5 spirit, and 1% extra chance to crit with spells.

And if you think that that 1% extra crit chance is important, let me put it into prespective. Let's say you're an Arcane Mage, and you use Arcane Missles as your primary damage dealer. At level 60, a barrage of five missles inflicts 192 * 5 damage, or 960 total damage. If you crit with your spell, assume that it's doing 960 * 1.5 = 1440 damage. That's a grand total difference of 480 damage, which you now inflict 1% more often because of the dagger. 1% of 480 = 4.8 damage, so this dagger is adding an average of 4.8 damage per volley to your Arcane Missles. If there was a dagger that did 5-10 damage(it might as well since you don't melee), had +10 Intellect, +5 spirit, and said "+4.8 Arcane Damage" would you be arguing that it's totally uber for your class? I truly doubt it.

So that should be the end of the argument: Fang of the Mystics MASSIVELY increases the DPS of any dagger-using rogue, it is matched only by Felstriker, and it is considerably worse than many green items for a cloth wearer. If you roll for this as a Priest, Mage or Warlock with a "N" rogue in your group, YOU are the greedy bastard.

Edited, Sat Mar 26 16:26:09 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

if i see any rogue who's rolling on this dagger...i'll find out where he lives and cut off his balls.

fu** the damn dps...look at the mana/crit thing. is it so hard? this is a mage/warlock/shaman dagger...not a rogue dagger. you got your goddamn felstriker.

goddamn :>

Comment by Allakhazam

This weapon is not meant for a rogue and I hope this discussion stop. Most likely that weapon is mostly designed for a Shaman due to high-end damage and the int buff. But this is clearly not meant for a rogue.

Let me point your to the rogue faq located here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=7&p=1&tmp=1#post7

And quote some text:

Weapon #1:
20 average damage, 1.00 speed = 20 dps
+20 average damage = 40 average damage, 40 dps

Now let's say you have another weapon which is 20 dps, but 2.00 speed. So, it's average damage per swing is 40. For this particular weapon, 20 dps = 40 damage per hit. So in this case, your average damage will go up 40 damage points due to your attack power bonus.

Weapon #2:
40 average damage, 2.00 speed = 20 dps
+40 average damage = 80 average damage, 40 dps.

Both weapon #1 and #2 have the same DPS, but weapon #2 is a much better mainhand weapon. Obviously there are no 1.00 speed weapons, but the point still holds.

All this explains why, for instance, the Toxic Revenger ends up having a slightly higher damage range than the Black Menace. Black Menace has an average damage of 44.5 @ 1.5s. Toxic Revenger, on the other hand, has an average damage of 39 @ 1.9s. The Black Menace has a much higher DPS, but since the average damages are so close, you'll notice that your tooltip damage range will be slightly higher with the Revenger, assuming you have a reasonable attack power.

Now the amount of damage you would gain off poison by chosing a weapon twice as fast is probably ridiculously low compared to the instant damage gained from Sinister Strikes or bstab ambush.

I'm astonished to see that some people think they know !@#$ because they don't use the blizzard forums... although there's some very good and worthwhile information.

Those probably are the same person picking Vile Poisons talent instead of improved isntant poison.

Comment by Allakhazam

honestly: best for a shaman or druid.
also great for a mage, priest or lock
useless for a rogue

Since when did druids learn to use daggers?

EDIT: After I looked it up I realized they can, cool I didn't know that. Just havnt learnt it with my druid.

Edited, Wed Jun 22 02:09:04 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

The fact is, daggers aren't very good for shamans in the first place. High speed = crap with windfury. I have this and the Aurastone Hammer and the hammer (despite being 44dps instead of 51) does a buttload more damage with windfury on it.

Windfury favours slow weapons with high top end damage, which the fang of mystics does not have. Still a great dagger for pvp when you're not doing much melee (spell crit ftw) and just tossing in chain lightnings as well as shocks and heals, but generally... I don't have it equipped.

Comment by Allakhazam

Buy far Warlock..

P.s Hard to get..

Comment by Allakhazam

got it from Azuregos today.

here is what it looks like : http://img217.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img217&image=mysticsfang9yf.jpg

very nice dagger for a mage like me ! :-)

Comment by Allakhazam

If you view 1% chance to crit as equal to 100 intellect, and 1% chance to crit = +4.8 arcane damage, then you'd happily pass on a 1h weapon that adds 3000 mana for a 1h weapon that says "+10 arcane damage"? Last time I checked 100 intellect = 1500 mana, and that's a lot more important than 1% extra crit chance. Man, math rules, it's the antidote for stupidity :)

Edited, Sun Mar 27 01:14:50 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

Any rogue who rolls on this is an greedy idiot through and through.

WTF are you going to do with the two passives and the +10 intellect? 3/4 of the daggers attributes you dont use. FOOL. And then because your such a greedy dipstick you roll on it for the sole purpose of the increased DPS which any caster who can wield daggers has a right to, moreso over you. I think not.

Rogue by class, rogue by nature. If a rogue rolled on this in my presence (mage), I'd hunt them down and make sure they never got a minute's rest.

Shamans also do have a right to this dagger but not more than other casters. It depends how the person plays their caster and if they melee a fair bit. When you run out of mana its either a slow wand or this fast increased DPS dagger. You choose.

Comment by Allakhazam

As if all four of the mods are somehow equivalent...

There are four mods:

54-101 Base Damage, 1.4 speed, 51.7 DPS

Unequaled by ANY dagger currently in the game, and 25% better than any dagger but Felstriker(and yes, that means better than Barman Shanker too).

+10 Intellect:

Equalled or bettered by tons of 1H weapons, including a green quest reward sword

1% Better Chance to crit with spells:

Already proven in the mathematical example I provided to be equivalent to "+4.8 Arcane Damage". The suffix "of arcane wrath" spawns on green daggers, adds +5 Arcane Damage, and is level 21 required.

Restores 4 mana every 5 seconds:

This is really powerful on level 60 cloth wearers who commonly have a mana pool of 4000-6000. It restores a whopping .8 mana per second, which means that you'll be regenerating 48 extra mana per minute, and a MASSIVE 2880 mana per hour! Holy crap man, Fang of the Mystics lets you cast almost FIVE extra arcane missles PER HOUR! How unbelievably UBER!

So there you have it: one good caster mod, one mediocre caster mod, and one nearly worthless caster mod stacked up against the best DPS dagger in the game by almost 6. They're hardly equal, and this dagger's single good rogue mod completely outstrips the other three caster mods. I'm not using math to justify avarice, I'm using math to explain reality. A lot of the people who commented in this thread are in dire need of a strong dose of that.

P.S. If you read my original post, you'll see that I only condemmed "cloth wearers" rolling on the dagger. That means Priest, Mage and Warlock. Druids and Shamans can definitely benefit from the dagger's insane DPS, and I think that they're completely entitled to roll on it.

Comment by Allakhazam

This weapon is not meant for a rogue and I hope this discussion stop. Most likely that weapon is mostly designed for a Shaman due to high-end damage and the int buff. But this is clearly not meant for a rogue.

Let me point your to the rogue faq located here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=7&p=1&tmp=1#post7

And quote some text:

Weapon #1:
20 average damage, 1.00 speed = 20 dps
+20 average damage = 40 average damage, 40 dps

Now let's say you have another weapon which is 20 dps, but 2.00 speed. So, it's average damage per swing is 40. For this particular weapon, 20 dps = 40 damage per hit. So in this case, your average damage will go up 40 damage points due to your attack power bonus.

Weapon #2:
40 average damage, 2.00 speed = 20 dps
+40 average damage = 80 average damage, 40 dps.

Both weapon #1 and #2 have the same DPS, but weapon #2 is a much better mainhand weapon. Obviously there are no 1.00 speed weapons, but the point still holds.

All this explains why, for instance, the Toxic Revenger ends up having a slightly higher damage range than the Black Menace. Black Menace has an average damage of 44.5 @ 1.5s. Toxic Revenger, on the other hand, has an average damage of 39 @ 1.9s. The Black Menace has a much higher DPS, but since the average damages are so close, you'll notice that your tooltip damage range will be slightly higher with the Revenger, assuming you have a reasonable attack power.

Now the amount of damage you would gain off poison by chosing a weapon twice as fast is probably ridiculously low compared to the instant damage gained from Sinister Strikes or bstab ambush.

I'm astonished to see that some people think they know @#$% because they don't use the blizzard forums... although there's some very good and worthwhile information.

Those probably are the same person picking Vile Poisons talent instead of improved isntant poison.

Comment by Allakhazam

I used to be saving points for this dagger, but now (1.10), the 50+ dps is gone and it's just another caster dagger. A pretty awesome caster dagger, but its no longer unique... oh well.

Edited, Sat Apr 1 14:46:22 2006

Comment by Allakhazam

Holy &*!@ they improved it :O

Comment by Niniveh

Boomkin Mageblade.

View in 3D Find upgrades...Links

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Fang of the Mystics

Item Level 70
Binds when picked up

One-Hand	Dagger

39 - 86 Damage	Speed 1.50

(41.67 damage per second)
+10 Intellect
Durability 75 / 75

Requires Level 60
Equip: Improves your chance to get a critical strike with spells by 1%.
Equip: Restores 4 mana per 5 sec.
Equip: Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 40.

Sell Price: 10 93 7

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