Comments

Comment by 4956

These are decent additions if your tank hasn't hit the defense cap and doesn't like the idea of being mauled by Naxxramas bosses.

Comment by 3118

Naxx is a rough place for a warrior who needs these for the minimum defense. The real selling point of these is that they're cheap and easy to make. Usually mats are provided by the guild, since tanking is a selfless endevour. +3 defense is better than nothing, although if gold is not a factor, enchants are usually better. Remember: Armor kits go on chest, legs, hands and feet. Chest and Legs can each have 100HP while hands and feet enchants are lacking (unless one wants to really invest in a nice +threat or 15 agi.

Comment by Thottbot

Here's the big question: would +20 defense be better or worse than the 270hp & 7 agility (or strength) that you could get as enchanhts instead?

Comment by Thottbot

dropped from magdamar in mc last night. Nice but at this point think def is overated. +5 def (.04 dodge/parry/block)or 100hp chest? +9 agi? I believe the reduced crit chance is only during pve so make some good tank stuff maybe. I have seen nowhere that it reduces chances to hit. I think that is just some bad info

Comment by Thottbot

What's the difference between +40 armor and +5 def in terms of effectiveness comparatively. Assuming cost doesn't matter, what would you choose and why?

Comment by Thottbot

Very, very doubtful. Think of it as an enchant.

Comment by Thottbot

the higher the skill the les chance of geting a critical and ohh yea! crushing blows you know that higher lvl creatures inflict crushing blows depending on your defence skill so for a tank in MC is good

Comment by Thottbot

I wouldn't put these on a a chest piece or boots. On gaunts or leggings however...there are no other options so +10 def from having kits on both pieces isn't bad.

The only other alternative to leggings are librams and they can cost a pretty g while most guilds that run MC will donate a 3 core leather readily to help their tanks out.

Comment by Thottbot

okay so.

Creds: 60 (protection specced) warrior. Obviously, tank.

+270 health is nice, but my priest can boost me more than that.
Armor has a saddle point at about 8000, with diminishing returns leading up to it. I have 7200 armor. The additional +40 from the kit won't really help me a great deal anymore.

The defense, though.
At 389 defense, I have (rounded up):

13.6% block
13.6% parry
7.8% dodge.
Added together:
Roughly 35.0% chance to take lessened or zero damage from a given attack.

I will gladly trade my armor kits for +5 defense every single day.

Comment by Thottbot

Nobody so far has given the correct way of how defense works, let me explain:

- Decreases the chance of mob missing you (pve only, seems to be 1% per 25).
- it increases your dodge chance (1% per 25)
- it increases your parry chance (1% per 25)
- it increases your block chance (1% per 25)
- it decreases the chance of being crit (1% per 25)
- it decreases the chance of getting a crushing blow (even more irritating then a crit) (not sure about it, but I guess 1% per 25)

the decrease in crit alone is already why this is way better then more health and 9 agility for a MT in MC. Because those mobs hit real, and if they crit they hit even harder. And if they crit a couple times in a row... Then you are dead, no matter how many people are healing you. Such damage spikes are the biggest problem to a tank.

To prevent crits you need to get your defense up to around 425 (5% crit chance is normal on mobs) so you will not get crit at all.

In total the + 20 to defense is a 0.80 * 4 = 3.20 % reduction (totals from dodge, parry, misses and less crits)
+ a decreased chance for the crushing blows + a increased chance to block (always nice). That totally owns 270 health and a 0.45% dodge chance (+7 agi) in every possible way for a tank.

Comment by Thottbot

Just would go for def instead a +40 armor on every item. Now have 420 def with lvl 59. Would make 440 def or 16,8% chance to parry, etc.

With def 420, holy shield, a decent equipped shield, around 6.9k armor and proper talents my paladine gets like 10% the dmg i deal from "green" mobs and up to 30-40% from higher Mobs up to lvl60 or elites. Almost NO crits anymore...

Comment by Thottbot

going back to most of the previous posts..i think +20 def WAS good and +12 def aint all that bad..BUT if you fight in CM i guess libram that give +20 FR OWN this puppy so hard

My suggestion is get your guild to make different MTs

1 for PURE MEELEE = stamina, armor and defense
(these should get these patches or those librams with +1 % dodge chance)

1 for PURE Fire-bosses= stamina, FR and armor and defense
(armor and defense to be looked at last, these should use Librams with +20 FR)

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST
1-2 allround combattanks= stamina,FR,Defnese,armor
(50-50 tank: making a tank that has like 350 defnense and 100 FR unbuffed, so it can tank accepteble against both meelee and fire bosses, but will be maily good against most mobs)

This way a raid leader will simply apply the right tank to the right boss/mob, making his choise out of these 4 tanks.
For example Magmadar: Fr tank or 50-50 tank.
Lava golems:meelee tank /50-50 tank
MY POINT is..perfect yourself as a tank in 1 specific area of tanking..nobody can get 3 epic gears tank ttank all kind of bosses /mobs.

3 Def might not be alot..but on 3-4 items= 12 def
i assure you it WILL matter IF its they are appield on epic end-game items

Comment by Thottbot

Sucks how blizz said they'd nerf the defense bonus on ITEMS in game, and then they stealth nerf the core armor kits too (but not the bacer enchant afaik). They didn't even change the description of the kit. It still says you get 5 extra defence, but when you atach it to a gear it only gives 3. Bah.

Comment by Thottbot

A few people above mentioned that they have an incredible amount of defense, ranging from 450-500. Lets break this down for anyone who is goin protection and is thinking about +def. First off, 500 def is not possible. Secondly 450 defense might be possible, but is it worth it. To get that high you must have items that have very high +def (example: Deathbone Chestplate, theres a leggings, and helm of the mountain). Unfortunatly if you were to get these items just for the +def you will be lacking the +stats (stamina especially) to be an effective tank. Defense is great, believe me, i have +381 defense, and i love it....however i have killer stats too. The best thing you can do is get the gear that gives you the best of both worlds. Here is my typical tanking gear....i am doing this from memory so if i mispell, or mess up the stats i apologize.

Enchanted Thorium Helm +10def (killer stam, enchant +100hp)
Marshal something Medalion +10def, +7 stam
Stockade Pauldrons +10 def (good strength & stam)
Redoubt Cloak +5def (ithink) +stats
Valor guantlets---garbage
Stonegrip Gauntlets +10def +9str, +14stam (i think)
Belt of Might +5 def (great stats)
Warmaster Leguards +2 dodge (good stats +100hpenchant)
Shaskeluk boots (sp?) +2 dodge (crap stats)
Band of the Ogre King X2
Trinkets that give +3dodge total
Drac Defl +10 def

Im missing an item or i only have 370+/- defense. But the point is, if you have too much defense your stats are gonna suck. Make a well rounded warrior with good defense and good stats. You will be much happier and live longer.

I remember now, the chestpiece.

Ornate Adamantium Chesplate +10def, +22stam +100hp enchant.

There you go. 380+/- defense, good armor, and good stats.

Comment by Thottbot

Unless they are taking their +dodge and converting it to defense. At that point getting close to +500 defense is definatly possible o.O

Comment by Thottbot

I have this pattern on Azgalor. I had to spend DKP to get the pattern and I have to spend DKP to get the core leathers too. So my question is...is it even worth it for me to spend my DKP on the leather? Obviasly if one of the tanks in my guild spends the points on the leather I will make it for um...but for profit wise, how much can I sell these armor kits for?
3g, 20g, 50g, 100g? I have no idea where to start. Auctioneer mod is not much help on this one. What have others been able to sell them for?

Comment by Thottbot

100 gold for it

Comment by Thottbot

+def helps against being critted, not against crushing blow. Blues on forums have confirmed this, IIRC.

Comment by Thottbot

There is a reason why there are crits and crushing blows ... and this is why.

Crits can be reduced with +DEF, not crushing blows.

Crushing blows only come from mobs higherlvl than you (ie: everything in any instance that is even remotely challenging)

Comment by Thottbot

quote
"Crits can be reduced with +DEF, not crushing blows."

No, a crushing blow is actually the same as a crit, but as mentioned, they can only come from elite high lvl mobs.

Def DOES however reduces the chance of getting one,but not quite is good.

For example, i've read that to be immune to crits from lvl 60 you need 25 def, but to do the same for crushing i believe 475 def was needed, and this is against a lvl 60 elite.

bottomline=> more def = good

Comment by Thottbot

These are a waste of gold/guild resources after the defense nerf. Period.

Comment by Thottbot

These rock for an MT. Period. They buff defence, which since the nerf has been a lot harder to get hold of. Any tank in a raid guild should be aiming for bang on 125 defence and probably more come The Burning Crusade. (There are encounters where stamina will be of more use, but stamina enchants and gear is not an issue to obtain)

For anyone else, your mileage will vary. Broadly speaking, if you have less than 3k armour, armour patches will do you more good in terms of melee damage mitigation and for PvP you'll want stamina, not def or armour and lots of it.

You'll only ever need them on boots or chest now, long term, since you'll be putting a ZG enchant on head and legs and have the AQ threat enchant on your gloves.

The hard thing will be finding someone on your server with the recipe.

Comment by Thottbot

Had a look at this in my leatherworking list and it's back up to +5 defense.

Comment by Allakhazam

Got two of these today...enough to push me up to 400 Defense in my tanking kit. Very nice.

Comment by Allakhazam

That's actually a pretty damn good application of core leather, though personally I think the cost should be reduced to 2. This is a lot better than just turning them in to the tardbag in BRD for mere faction. Anyone that raids MC a lot has more faction and leather than they know what to do with.

Also, I assume more than just Lucifron will drop this, and the rate is gonna be really skewed cause of the several thousand times Lucifron has died and not been able to drop this.

Comment by Allakhazam

can anyone make this on the uther server on the horde? if so plz sent tell to kegz or ask my guild "the dragons breath" so that they can inform me.... or just cod it at a reasonable price

Comment by Allakhazam

Just picked this up.

I'll make em for any horde on Muradin as long as they provide the mats. Combine fee is negotiable but my standard rate is 5g per kit.

Edited, Nov 12th 2006 at 3:48pm PST by Kolobus

Comment by Allakhazam

What is best for me? A Rugged Armor Kit + 40 or + 5 defence? I'm a balance druid., thus relying on my spells to kill.

/Nialla

Edited, Apr 8th 2007 1:29pm by mimmis

Comment by Allakhazam

think about it this way, 5 defense = 1 level so say you have all 4 boosting your defense skill up to that of a lvl 64 player... playing a healer i would rather have a tank who doesnt get hit then a tank who has a ton of hps but gets crushed...

what i really want is both a tank who doesnt get hit and has a ton of hps...

Comment by Allakhazam

What does one point in defense do (statistically)? (Question comming from a mage :P)

Comment by Allakhazam

It got nerfed along with other +def GEAR as the patchnotes said.

It doesnt give +5 def any longer, its +3.
Even tho the tooltip says +5. NOTICE THIS.

Ty blizz, ty alot.

Edited, Mon Sep 26 07:49:12 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

I agree that this is generally much better than the rugged armor kit, but I think I may have found an exception. You see, Druids in Dire Bear form get a 360% armor bonus added to their equipment, so the 40 armor bonus from the kit is actually increased to 184 (I'll have to double check this number in-game).

So the question is, which is better, 5 defense or 184 armor?

Comment by Allakhazam

the 360% bonus to bearform armor for druids is based on base armor. Enchants and armor kits aren't factored in, so this would be the best way to go as far as armor kits go.

Comment by Allakhazam

I have this pattern on server Eldre'Thalas (Alliance) and can make it for you if you bring me the mats. I charge a 15g combine fee.
PST or Mail Thilia

I can also make a huge list of other great items, feel free to look on our public forums at:
http://www.efguild.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=62

Edited, Tue Dec 6 13:37:28 2005

Comment by Allakhazam

You can enchant legs. Its a quest later on in the game

Comment by Allakhazam

I think people are reading this wrong. This isn't like the other armor kits. This is a PERMANENT increase to the defense. It's not a +40 defense, its actually modifiying the base defense of the item. As in, the white armor value of item goes up by 5. That's the only reason it would be 300 leatherworking and require lvl 50.

Comment by Allakhazam

this is ONLY good for your gloves and ONLY good for a tank.

+100hp to helm/legs/chest ftw

Comment by Allakhazam

At lvl 60, the extra armor bonus from Rugged Armor Kits isn't all that great; however, +5 Defense Rating means you just increased Blocking, Dodge, and Parry by .20% each and .80% with full setup.

So its a question of would you rather have a minor damage reduction of less than .3% with a Rugged Armor Kit or .20% bonus to 3 traits that negate damage altogether.

Comment by Allakhazam

I'd so make this..... considering all the core leather we have gotten from the molten core... too bad he didn't have this pattern saturday =/

Comment by Allakhazam

ENCHANT:
Gives your armor piece a +5 DEFENSE skill value

they should clearify that ;)

Comment by Allakhazam

Hmmm....which would be better for a warrior?

Rugged Armor Kit that adds 40 to armor rating or this Core Armor Kit that adds 5 to defense rating.

Cheers,
Coney

Comment by Allakhazam

We-Todd-Ed

Comment by Allakhazam

oh god.....GL finding someone to make this, its a BOP pattern dropped from lucifron, gg

Comment by Allakhazam

this raises you comparitive level to a mob by +4 levels (5 points per level), so effectively, though you have normal level 60 stats, you can consider yourself level 64 in chance of dodging, blocking, parrying, and having critical strikes upon yourself

the ultimate tanking item.

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Core Armor Kit

Item Level 60

Requires Level 50
Use: Permanently increase the defense value of an item worn on the chest, legs, hands or feet by 3. Only usable on items level 45 and above.

Max Stack: 10

Sell Price: 50

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WoW Classic Leatherworking Guide Skinning Guide

Core Armor Kit

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