I personally don't gear up in PvP gear but why would anyone be happy that PvP power is returning?It was removed basically because it was useless in world PvP VS high end PvE gear back in Pandaria for anyone that cares to remember. In most PvP seasons in Pandaria heroic PvE gear was a whooping 20+ item levels higher. It was that bad Blizzard had to scale (All PvE gear) items down so PvP gear would definitely be better in arenas. If this doesn't tell you PvP power was useless, nothing will.Hence we had the gear scaling in Warlords of Draenor where when you entered any PvP combat your PvP item level increased dramatically. This was a bandaid fix, but it worked.In Legion Blizzard introduced the stat template for arenas and battlegrounds, and world PvP was left a mess because it wasn't quite ready to be introduced in a world scale.BfA has some kind of under the hood scaling mechanic where higher item level deals lower damage to lower geared players and vice versa in accordance with their health pools or something like that. This kind of works better than any of the other models, though I'd much prefer to have the gear I work hard for do its full best in any scenario. I mean I'm not going to complain if that's their intention in Shadowlands to have baseline item level PvP gear with PvP power with a rock bottom LFR item level, it just puts PvP players with that gear at a massive disadvantage across the gameworld.All the more fun for PvE geared like myself I guess with Mythic+/raiding lmao.
I only pve my char too squishy to even compete in pvp so this will not effect me
For PvPers, I think PvP power is good.Strongest gear in PvP coming from PvP content is how it should be.Best gear for PvP coming from PvE content just ruined it for PvPers.
To be fair, PvP power has never technically been removed completely from the game. Similar to Haste, Crit, Mastery, etc, PvP power per 1% has consistently been in the game files even after it was thought to have been removed from the game. https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/shadowlands/engine/dbc/generated/sc_scale_data.inc#L1360
I really miss pvp stats I loved leveling an alt and jumping straight into random battlegrounds to get that set of blues. And then later seasons grinding out the last seasons pvp gear with honor from battlegrounds. I haven’t done a real bg grind for base gear in a long long time and that does make me sad
Are people serious here? You saying that pvp power will make you have 2 sets of gear. Do you even play BFA?If you want to play good at everything you need different gear set for mythic+ with an extra set for some affixes, different set for raids, different for world-visions, different for bg and casual pvp, different for arena. and you crying about 2 gear sets? and the above are for EVERY SPECC you want to play.... i have holy-retri pala and resto-balance druid... i play around with 12 different sets of gear.
Thanks Blizz! Now War Mode / World PvP will be dead.
This combined with PvP vendors is a good change.There's been a couple of recurring themes in this comment section that I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in regarding:1) "PvP players just want the ability to steamroll non-PvP geared players, not balance, and this will make a huge barrier to entry for PvP" - There's elements of truth here, however the current status quo is PvE geared players (particularly Mythic raiders and high M+ players) are able to do just this against everyone else, hence why top ranked PvP players have to grind PvE content to remain competitive. I remember in the Wrath days when it was a BG grind to get honor gear, then an arena grind to get conquest gear, then a rating grind to get the top glad gear. It was tiered, grindy and rewarding (I know, who would have thought you have to grind in an RPG?). PvE was similar in nature: dungeons -> normal raids -> heroic raids. In the same way that a PvE player with the appropriate gear should be able to outperform an equally skilled player in PvP gear in a PvE environment, the reverse should also be true in a PvP environment. The grind for PvP gear was tough no doubt, but it had a few benefits. For example, once you started getting the gear there was a noticeable difference in your surviveability which was rewarding, and you'd also get to start dishing out the same punishment to even greener players as a reward for the grind. Also it's not like raid geared players were at some absurd disadvantage, they were glass canons and not a one shottable player that also hit like a wet noodle. I should also mention that I feel like the difference in tiers back around WotLK felt much smaller than the power difference between tiers we have today which may also contribute to the large gear imbalance, especially for mythic raid geared players doing PvP content.2) "I don't want to have to carry around another gear set just for PvP" - I ask anyone who thinks this to log in to their main and tell me how much gear is currently sitting in their bags due to corruption, azerite traits, warforging, etc. First of all, this current gear stockpiling issue is a part of a bigger issue with Blizz introducing systems on systems, all heavily loaded with RNG. Throw in the fact that tuning has also been pretty horrible and you get people hoarding even more gear due to a "what if this corruption/trait/trinket gets buffed/nerfed in a hotfix?" mindset. Assuming that gear gets simplified in Shadowlands, even with the introduction of an additional PvP set(s) you're more than likely still going to have more bag space compared to now. I understood the why it was annoying to carry the extra set in the past when bag sizes were smaller, but with 30+ slot bags for both your character and bank this should be a trivial issue that poses a minor inconvenience at most (provided gearing in SL doesn't end up like 8.3).3) "I don't have time to farm for PvP gear as well as PvE" - A valid concern which I have myself, but sometimes life just isn't fair. It comes down to which content is more of a priority. In the same vain that you wouldn't expect Blizz to nerf Mythic raids because you can only raid 1 night a week for a couple of hours tops, why should Blizz make these concessions for entry into PvP? Choose something else, do LFR, drop down to only heroic raiding instead of mythic, I don't care but don't ruin an entire aspect of the game because some people don't have the time or can't be bothered to put the effort in.4) "PvP stats has been used in the past and PvP players hated it" - I have seen mixed comments on this one so I'm putting it down to preference, I'm sure there's validity on both sides. Some of this mindset in the past may have also stemmed from the bag space and time commitment issues I addressed above. However it's also important to understand the context in which the original complaints towards PvP stats were made. Imagine if the same PvP imbalances we have now existed in these expansions, would players be more or less happy with the state of PvP compared with the original PvP stat states? We can only answer at a personal level but I would suspect that PvP stats would be the better outcome. It may not be the "perfect" system but it is probably the better system of the two.5) "This will completely divide the game back into PvP and PvE" and in a similar fashion "What's wrong with having to PvE for gear so you can do PvP?" - Consider the reverse, having to PvP to get PvE gear. I only have one thing to say to any PvE player that thinks this is a good idea, and it's such a doosy I've had to put it in a spoiler. Blood of the EnemyThere have been other arguments made but I think I've summed up the main ones. Agree or disagree, I don't mind as long as you tell me why with rational arguments.
I'm amazed by the RP-factor of "PvP Power", why not just called "got gud" or "pew pew"
pvp power and resilience... give ppl the options to do what they want with their char... MoP was ^&*!ING AMAZIGNGGGGGG for pvp...make.. or try atleast... to make pvp great again there at blizzurd.
pvp power is a stat on pvp gear so no more PVE ^&*! in arenas this is WHAT WE NEEED SO MUCH.!
PvP specific stats are about the only way I can think of them being able to continue to have two equally rewarding gear tracks exist in the game simultaneously. All throughout BFA I've felt a pressure to take advantage of the generous rewards from the PvP weekly activities like the cache and conquest rewards, especially early in a new tier or gearing a new character, because the gear obtained from PvP activities is in no way different from gear obtained from PvE activities. I've heard a lot of PvPer express going through similar negative experiences, about how they felt they needed to raid or M+ in order to no fall behind other players on the gear curve because not doing so would just be them wasting important weely opportunities to obtain high level gear for themselves .
As someone whos mainly a pvp player and experienced pvp since vanilla besides Legion and BfA (yet I'm up to date regarding BfA pvp), resilience and pvp power were really not good in my opinion. It did not feel good. The huge downside of it is that it is a super unfriendly system towards Alts, players that normally do PvE and decide to do PvP later during the expansion and for players that join later in the expansion. You'd literally be utterly useless and deadweight to your team in bgs or arena and would have to painstakingly grind losses until you get your gear. Grinding losses while feeling powerless and that no matter how good you are that your gear is the single factor that is keeping you down is unfun. This also goes for the players who finally got all their resilience/pvp power gear but play with players who don't got it and you keep farming Ls since your team is undergeared. It has nothing to do with skill at this point especially regarding Alts. Sure pure pve players or returning players in the middle of the expansion might actually be bad pvp players but the experience even worsens or deter people from pvp even further when having to feel absolutely worthless.My suggestion, which however also has a downside that requires a fix:PvP and PvE gear should pretty much be equal. PvE players who enjoy PvE more can get their gear through PvE and PvP players through PvP. And if a PvP player decides to do some PvE that player can also then get some gear through PvE and vice versa, which however isn't different to if he'd get it through PvP.The only issue I see is that high rated pvp players would need to have a more rewarding gear in PvP than mythic raid gear or whatever. Why? Because it is much much harder to achieve gladiator then to learn some raid mechanics and push mythics. It would be unfair that a pure PvE player who has absolutely no clue about PvP should be up to par with a gladiator in PvP. It would make the prestige of being a gladiator somewhat redundant or the gladiator rewards rather. It would feel like cheating when people who can't achieve gladiator would just start to do mythic for the gear just to be on the same level of gladiators who worked their asses of to get there. Gladiator gear would be meaningless. But the highest PvP gear should also not be up to par with the highest PvE gear due to comparable reasons.So that is the downside. My suggestion, although maybe not as "epic" or "rewarding":Give the best PvP gear a way better set bonus for PvP environments/encounters while the PvE gear has better bonuses for PvE environments.But stat wise there shouldn't be too much of a difference. In the end the gear shouldn't be the deciding factor esp. since both type of gear are the high end of their environments (PvP/PvE) respectively.Somebody would probably suggest to just give the highest PvP gear some sort of PvP stat like resilience/pvp power. This would lead to gatekeeping and also feel bad, when people who get earlier gladiator versus people who take longer to come close to gladiator.Also please get rid of versatility. Horrible bandaid stat feels just as bad as pvp power. Can't pass up on it.If thats not already being planned for shadowlands, disable those nutty BfA PvE trinkets in bgs/arenas. Sometimes they can feel good in arena since they could overcome the dampening fest. However that is a separate issue, like mana being cosmetic at this point (for many expansions already). Make mana more relevant and tie it to a rewarding result. Additionally it would be nice if the stat difference from one "tier" set (regardless of PvP/PvE) to another would not be as significant as it has been the last few expansions. The differences of gear during one expansion escalate way too fast imo.
without look up anything i asuming we return back cata panda time like today pve gear best stroger for pvp world pvp specially so480 gear mythic raider eat alive 455 item lvl normal casual playerbut shadowland they said gone add vendor conquest or honor those gear wont be same lvl as mtyhic gearso how u can hold power on bg arena or even world pvps.well pvp gear will have pvp powerwhich kind a work like versality before versality invited was even betterat old days u get less dmg u do more dmg and heal at cata and some panda arena match took 25m draws becouse of those good healer week dps boosted matc goes forever.recent versality nerf in pvp but as i said at bfa pvp expansion sahdowland no way pvp gear will be good item lvl or pve gear pvp wont be so much efetive as today.but lower item lvl pvp gear will do good work on pvp .who played old day all experincedlike how they bring back old spells guess old stat mechanic coming back too