"As Anduin tries to be the good guy we more and more double down on the Horde being total *!@#bags who start every single faction conflict because we *!@#ing say so, and because the Generic European Fantasy tropes can't ever be the bad guys."@#$% so many shades of off Blizzard.
Sush, Blizz. It's alright if you don't know how to depict Chaotic themed characters. Just... admit it. You show constantly you want some character to be Chaotic Neutral, but you just make them Chaotic Evil.I know you wanted to depict DKs as the ruthless antihero class, but you just made them plain evil and with little relevance on the champaign lore-wise. To the point people rumored about a Lick King expansion.I know you tell us Sylvanas is the brutal and ruthless but efficient leader you want her to be and I've quite got over all cries and hate-boners against for a while. But, at the point where you add more and more pointless war.crimes on her history without any clear purpose or benefit, the excuses you'll need make up for all her action will reach the point of needing a deus ex machina to take her out of her predicament(if it hadn't get there yet).You are in the Alpha yet. Drop it with the warcrimes list and balance it around both factions. There are more chances to get a smoother storyline, have Sylvanas showed the way you want without needing to do some titan-size deus ex machina, and to give each faction more crap to fling at the opposite faction in Lore forums. Either that or you just give up with her, tell she is a future raid-boss and swear to not create any other morally grey character until your writers get to learn the line between chaotic neutral and chaotic evil (and some of this also for the lawfull good-neutral, that they don't seem to know either).Heck, there are even simple steps to make it happen: Anduin can't get a hold on his people, Horde gets attacked by Alliance bitter folks repeated times (extra tension if they're undefended civilians and the attack was unprovoked, involving Forsaken being the charry on top), Sylvanas then decides that Alliance poses a threat.and strikes back. Anduin, all too forgiving of his people, won't let Sylvanas. War ensues, preexp events happen (with less pointless war- crimes). And here you go. It took merely 5 minutes to think of it.
I understand people having strong feelings about the lore and everything. I also do. But c'mon, at least express yourselves in a reasonable manner. Spamming insults is not constructive, and won't convince anyone, only make you feel you "won" something, when you actually only lost your time and sanity raging on a fan site comment section with strangers.
"It's bad writing because it makes no sense. "Things can "not make sense" to you because you haven't actually seen the entire story yet to know how things fit together in context. There are things I'm side-eyeing too but I'm fine with waiting on context. We've seen only a peek so far.People here also need to keep in mind the story is a joint effort of many people. Even the novellas were written with the two writers working closely together. At Blizzcon they discussed on the Lore Panel how they 'break story' together as a group and have to choose which points are hills they'd die on.Lastly, whenever I hear people using Sylvanas as a metonymy for the Horde, and Anduin for the Alliance and then argue that those two being written in character is some kind of betrayal of half of the players, I roll my eyes. Please, think of my eyes, I beg you.
Lordsofthefallen:"Not worth my time to explain my point bye."Also Lordsofthefallen:"I will spam the comment section."I don't know if you're honestly trolling or not, but you've essentially gone around demanding other people show evidence without providing any yourself. Then you go off on people; spam the comment section calling people names like we're in an elementary school, critique other commentators' writing despite how poor your own is, and refer to someone as being an egotist. Which is ironic considering you've literally wrote several comments in a row. Multiple times. Over the course of the entire comment section.Well, I'm a lore buff. World of Warcraft and its associated lore has been my favorite thing to dissect and analyze for years. I've played since Burning Crusade. My mains are an Undead Death Knight, and a Human Warlock. I am now calling you out.So, what is your argument, Lordsofthefallen, or what are you refuting? I have no conspiracy theories for you, only the evidence that we have in-game, in lore, and what we know coming into the next expansion. Let's have an open discussion without the regressing to primates. As a certain faceless one said, "Come, speak to me at your leisure. Let us discuss matters in a civil manner."
Lord of the fallen, oh master of the univserse, whose only opinion matters...Really, do you really think we care for your opinion this much? as others said, pls prove your point.so far alll you do is trolling
Here’s a thought: What if Sylvanas is making a conscious choice to become the supervillain everyone already assumes she is in order to save the Horde? And possibly all of Azeroth. Follow me down the rabbit hole...In Mists, Wrathion saw that the Burning Legion would return and destroy the world unless the Alliance and Horde merged to be able to defeat it. Wrathion was A-OK with Garrosh becoming a tyrant because everyone would work together against him, a test case for what needed to happen against the Legion.At the end, he wanted the Alliance to finish the Horde, ending their conflict (or enough so) to be ready to withstand the Legion. But it didn’t work, Varian backed down, and the pretend peace continued. Then later, in a way, we did come together (albeit through Order Halls, a gameplay mechanic) and defeated the Legion.But Wrathion ate the heart of a being with Titan knowledge; he knows the Void Lords exist. Maybe Sylvanas, perhaps when she committed suicide, also saw into the Void or communed with saronite and saw what was coming. Azeroth will die if the Alliance and Horde don’t find real peace, and they can’t because of mutual contempt and history.So to circle back to the original point, what if Sylvanas or Wrathion or whoever realized that forcing one faction to conquer the other didn’t work, and lasting peace can only happen when they come to it on their own? And to do that, they need to turn against someone truly, unabashedly horrible, from within their own ranks. I posit that Sylvanas could be making herself into a tyrant so as to martyr herself on the altar of lasting Alliance and Horde peace.Otherwise, Option B is this just really is Garrosh 2.0, which is really stupid and/or lazy writing, a total retread, etc. Or they’re making Sylvanas “Old God corrupted” which would be equally stupid and/or lazy. Or they’re just oblivious or uncaring to how much Sylvanas is becoming a mustache-twirling cartoon.
Just ignore the peanut gallery spammer until he goes away.
Well Sylvannas did plan to use the valkyr of stormheim to rez alll races (somehow she couldn't then but could in the cinematic?), so her plan was to kill all, rez them, so she would have as many arrows as possible betwee her and her enemies.So she was never... not evil, but the core problem is, as someone wrote to eloquently: NOONE reacts really.its just "ok".we are supposed to be generals, people of influence at least... and all WE SEEM to abe to do is "ok".My horde chars would hae instakilled her, to save the horde and prevent his war.
The rotten seeds were planted in Legion already. We had it all there: extreme focus on few "main" characters and player character, extreme retcons to justify the story they wanted, secondary NPCs being derailed into something that fits the narrative.Illidan? Not a power-crazy warmonger who mistreated his servants, aligned with darker powers, but misunderstood outcast with good intentions! We needed a whole expository questline to wash his name clean and a brand new godlike being to vouch for him. Where have Maiev, Malfurion, Tyrande been standing all that time? In his shadow, completely irrelevant. Because that story was not theirs.Eitrigg? Not a friend of Tirion Fordring and an elderly orc, but a frothing berserker, using word "fury" as punctuation, suddenly worthy of Odyn's attention. Not like average player has any clue that there are books written about him. It would take a single look at Wiki page to conclude that the character was not simply derailed, he was effectively replaced with another version of himself, that does not bear any resemblance to the original, barring the model and the name. And this is not some fan fiction, but the game we play.Let's face it. World of Warcraft is a part of pop culture now, in it's lowest form. This means that we can forget about coherent lore the likes of which we had in Warcraft III. The story will now be driven entirely by fan service and rule of cool. Earlier facts will bend to pave the road for the new ones. It is reflected in everything in game: the music, the story, the delivery, even gameplay elements. I really hoped that later developments and new expansion news would change my point of view. Expansion trailer lifted my hopes up, but it did not last. Sorry for the rant. It's been boiling up in me for quite some time. I will still be watching how things fare closely, but I am not hopeful.
It seems like the closest thing I got to a rebuttal for my last comment was "nuh-uh" followed by three pages of insults. Sounds like I've done my job. (And lol @ "just go get a job at blizz" as a retort, are you serious)Oh, right, the person who said "just wait and see". Well... the issue with that is I've been "waiting and seeing" since the expansion was announced. Believe me, I gave the writers the benefit of the doubt for a while. But every time I hear new story info, it just makes things even worse. At some point I just gave up on hoping it would get better later on. Even if we do get our SoO 2.0 with Sylvanas' head on a pike, the damage is already done.By the way, I agree Mary Sue was probably not the best term for me to use. Villain Sue I suppose works better, god it's been a while since I've visited TV Tropes, but it's not quite as well known. I just wanted to get across the idea of "this character is far more tolerated than she should be given the setting and the company she keeps", and I figured Mary Sue got the point across fairly well.
It seems Blizzard did a fine job making Sylvanas hated enough that no one will complain later when she gets murdered.
Lords, you understand that criticism of the game's writing is not a personal attack on you, right? There's no need to go flying off the rails every time someone disagrees with you.