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The State of Arms Warriors on the Shadowlands Beta

posted 2020/08/01 at 3:50 AM by Archimtiros

ShadowlandsAbout the Author

Archimtiros is the principle Warrior theorycrafter, guide writer, and SimulationCraft developer responsible for maintaining the Warrior module, as well as a part of the Wowhead Staff. He can be commonly found on Twitter or answering questions in the Warrior Discord server, Skyhold, now over 100,000 members strong.

The Slow Strong StruggleMists of Pandaria

The original Taste for Blood in Mists of Pandaria which increased Heroic Strike damage to nuclear proportions was extremely powerful, but didn't even last an entire tier before being redesigned due to the aforementioned burst issues.

The spec started out downright anemic in Warlords of Draenor, with no procs or spell interactions of any kind until Item - Warrior T18 Arms 2P Bonus and Tactical Surge were introduced in Hellfire Citadel, but it again led to just speeding up the spec to the point where it no longer possessed that "slow" identity.

Focused Rage in Legion was probably the best attempt at the concept, as the damage came out relatively slowly, but buttons were still being pressed in order to enable that damage. Still many players disliked the idea of spending so much time pushing buttons that lacked immediate impact.

Battle for Azeroth intended to fix the design, smoothing out the damage profile by using Mastery: Deep Wounds to keep up pressure in between the bigger GCDs of Colossus Smash, Mortal Strike, and Execute, but players balked at how much damage came from a seemingly passive source. The spec also continued to be feel incredibly slow due to unfilled GCDs, especially next to the whirlwind of action that was Fury, Arms was like playing a level 10 character. Until preserved contaminant corruptions were added late in patch 8.3, Fury saw considerably higher engagement, even during tiers in which it was tuned lower than Arms - players still gravitated toward Fury simply because Arms was considered by many to be unsatisfying to play, which has only recently changed because the ability to stack Haste corruptions to the point at which Arms is just as fast (or faster!) than Fury, along with the profoundly overtuned Test of Might interaction that it brings.

Shadowlands ChangesShadowlandsShadowlandsUnpruning

Spell Reflection is an incredibly powerful addition to the toolkit, offering spell immunity, extra damage output, or at worst just a very nice magical damage reduction on a very short cooldown with no cost or GCD. That's before considering how outright broken the party-wide legendary effect can be.

Shattering Throw has great PvP potential, but also a surprising amount of PvE viability where absorption shields are concerned.

Ignore Pain is a bit controversial as nobody really enjoys trading their damage (rage) for survivability, but it's high performing players will find ways to make it shine, especially in conjunction with other on-demand cooldowns such as Defensive Stance.

Intervene of course adds even more mobility, which complements Charge very well. The defensive aspect is rather questionable, though it can be used in conjunction with Die by the Sword to make a big play.

Shield SlamShield BlockSpecialization & Talent Changestalent calculator

Die by the Sword cooldown reduced from 3m -> 2m.

Sweeping Strikes duration increased from 12 -> 15s.

Mastery: Deep Wounds now increases the targets damage taken, rather than scaling bleed damage.

Impending Victory now heals 30% up from 20%.

Collateral Damage now enhances Whirlwind damage.

Cleave now replaces Sweeping Strikes, and consumes Overpower to deal increased damage.

Deadly Calm now reduces the rage cost of the next 4 abilities by 100% and passively increases maximum rage by 30.

Dreadnaught still grants 2 Overpower charges, but not also incorporates Seismic Wave (Azerite Trait ) - causing Overpower to project a wave of damage in a line.

Ravager now has a 45s cooldown and slowly follows the closest target.

ShadowlandscriminallyMastery: Deep WoundsSweeping StrikesColossus SmashBladestormAnger ManagementLegionBlade FlurryCleaveDreadnaughtBattle for AzerothShadowlandsTest of MightRuneforged Legendaries

Enduring Blow and Battlelord call back to those Hellfire Citadel bonuses which saved Arms gameplay in Warlords of Draenor.

Exploiter and Unhinged are similarly well liked previous effects, particularly the former, though they don't quite offer the same moment to moment gameplay improvements.

Signet of Tormented KingsMisshapen MirrorbadSoulbinds, Conduits, and Covenant AbilitiesVenthyr:CondemnextremelyDoor of ShadowsKyrian:Spear of BastionSummon StewardPhial of SerenityNight Fae:Ancient AftershockSoulshapeNecrolord:Conqueror's BannerFleshcraftvery appealing bonusesOverall AssessmentShadowlandsShadowlandsfastergoodProsCons

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Comment by WalkThis is, so far, the best "state of" post for SL. Well written and constructive, well done!Comment by Awesome2daMaxVenthyr just seems op with Theotar the Mad Duke soulbind. Not only can you get 3x dmg conduits but you also get the 10% verse when using condemn. Does anyone know if this has a CD or is arms just lucky with the covenant ability with no CD.Comment by DraconaxVenthyr just seems op with Theotar the Mad Duke soulbind. Not only can you get 3x dmg conduits but you also get the 10% verse when using condemn. Does anyone know if this has a CD or is arms just lucky with the covenant ability with no CD.Comment by PrideLoLIt was an obvious candidate and yes, after some quick testing it's on a 1 minute ICD, so no, you don't just get roughly 26% Vers across the board for pressing a single button once in a while, whilst also having amazing uptime on it!Comment by PrideLoLthey need to make arms a crit spec instead of a haste spec.

they can slow down the rotation as much as they need to if they want, but if you reward the player's patience with 100% crits, then it satisfies the specs theme of slow meaningful attacks and satisfies the players cuz seing those numbers just POP on your screen and have them be HUUGE numbers, is just oh so satisfying.

then a talent like "focused rage" which does nothing immediately but rewards people that stack it would make a lot more sense. it always feels like garbage when the big heavy attack never crits and does garbage dmg.

idk why blizz thought haste was the solution for this but it's not. it's crit. certain moves/talents should be "guaranteed to crit" and just give us stuff to do in between like stacking short term buffs(focused rage stacks/overpower stacks) and bleed/dot management. (rend/deep wounds)

the concept has been there all along. they're very close. but instead of those stacks simply "increasing dmg of X" it should just be "increases crit chance to 100% and dmg by x%"

to compensate for absurd damage, they would just need to slow it down further by making all the other attacks weaker thus accomplishing the specs theme.

MS and execute should be the only ones to guarantee to crit (and guarantee to hit imo) after building them up with all available stacks. everything else should be nerfed to balance the dmg.Comment by kjn2day1With Ignore Pain, I can now how a heal without needing a talent.Comment by reboundthey need to make arms a crit spec instead of a haste spec.

they can slow down the rotation as much as they need to if they want, but if you reward the player's patience with 100% crits, then it satisfies the specs theme of slow meaningful attacks and satisfies the players cuz seing those numbers just POP on your screen and have them be HUUGE numbers, is just oh so satisfying.

then a talent like "focused rage" which does nothing immediately but rewards people that stack it would make a lot more sense. it always feels like garbage when the big heavy attack never crits and does garbage dmg.

idk why blizz thought haste was the solution for this but it's not. it's crit. certain moves/talents should be "guaranteed to crit" and just give us stuff to do in between like stacking short term buffs(focused rage stacks/overpower stacks) and bleed/dot management. (rend/deep wounds)

the concept has been there all along. they're very close. but instead of those stacks simply "increasing dmg of X" it should just be "increases crit chance to 100% and dmg by x%"

to compensate for absurd damage, they would just need to slow it down further by making all the other attacks weaker thus accomplishing the specs theme.

MS and execute should be the only ones to guarantee to crit (and guarantee to hit imo) after building them up with all available stacks. everything else should be nerfed to balance the dmg.Comment by XaleaThis is one of the best-written of these class guides. Well done!Comment by MauakiWell PvP-wise it's looking better than the actual state.Comment by Alechs777I am pretty happy about all warriors getting the option to use shields. Limiting any specs to certain weapons (like DK ones) is not and has never been a good thing imo.Comment by jamesseaverI don't know exactly how to implement the changes I'm thinking, but here are my thoughts.

Arms used to have access to Thunder Clap. I miss this. It provided excellent utility in the form of a slow (particularly in helping an otherwise slow-moving melee class stick to a ranged PvP target). It also used to interact with Rend--Blood and Thunder. It would spread your DoT to other targets, and I believe it would refresh it on the initial target so you only had to Rend at the start of a fight. I was hoping these would come back in the unpruning as I loved the interaction. Oh well!

Rend was basically made redundant by mastery. It's still there as a talent, but like, why? We already have a bleed fueled by Rage, so having a second one feels kinda lame. Now if Rend was still spreadable by Thunder Clap (and we had Thunder Clap) it could add some interesting rotational changes, which many welcome from talents. Right now it just adds another button to replace Mortal Strike every now and then. With the Blood and Thunder effect rolled in it would provide a cool change to AoE, and the refresh of Rend would make a rotational change of incorporating another ability in our ST to fill otherwise empty globals. Just some thoughts. If not baseline, which I would love, it would at least be an interesting talent.

Also, another effect that leans into the heavy hitting is the old Slam cast time. It felt weird when I was first learning the game--but once I realized it could be cast while moving I really liked it. It was a big windup for a big hit. The cast time made those otherwise dead globals at least appear to be useful since you weren't just sitting there autoattacking.Comment by AnilomuGreat post! I hope retribution paladin gets something similar.Comment by wee888I don't understand what's so hard to make arms hit much harder with their slow-paced abilities? What's this identity crisis all about? What's so hard Blizzard? Just make them do a lot more damage to compansate for the slower gameplay. It's just THAT SIMPLE. Make Mortal Strike chunk healthbars but cost more rage just like in classic. It's the homogenization that killed a lot of spec's identity in modern WoW. Arms doesn't need to be a fast paced spec. You have fury for that. If arms' abilities actually did what they were supposed to do, you'd feel good about the slow-paced GCD nightmare, simply because when you see those big #$%^ crits on your screen, you are immediately rewarded.

TL;DR Make arms abilities do more damage to compansate for a slower paced button pressing.Comment by ekidnaWhile I agree with the general concept, I find it ironic that you post starts with "Needs to be a crit class!" when literally offering said guaranteed crits baseline rather than through critstacking across the expansion, from $%^& to hero, devalues crit to the point you probably just want to stack Haste/Mastery/Vers anyways.

Edit: Granted, that can easily be fixed, the easiest solution even being just straight up doing what Combustion does with Mastery. Just make it so whatever hit you have the guaranteed Crits on, convert your normal critrating into extra critical damage for the hit.Comment by TheDirtyCubeManI am really happy that we are moving away from Deep Wounds doing 60% of your damage to your direct attacks doing most of your damage (I assume thats what the changes imply). I hated the RNG colossus smash in Legion (I hate any RNG involved in gameplay) and although I think BFA's deep wound design is better.... I'd still like to know that when I bring my sword down on someone they are taking a lot of damage... not the dot that comes afterwards.

Now I just want them to take Sweeping Strikes off GCD and Arms will sound amazing. Regardless of what anyone says its just annoying to take up all that time just to swing my sword horizontally :/Comment by Cecouramake lvl 25 talents baseline and add there stuff like replacing stormbold with a shockwave .. improved intervene / ignore pain / fear

that will fix:
-> baseline heal (no kill needed) !
-> a baseline stun - what dps warriors doesnt have like every other dps class!
-> utility like a usefull fear / stun ... (fear is currently just a 0,5sec aoe interrupt)
-> improved survivalbility (maybe a talent that removes rage cost on ignore pain)
-> dont loose mobility (double time) for utility / survivalbility -> thats a dumb unnecessary designComment by calekumWell written. ThanksComment by BendsonThis entire spec must be purge ! *Oh no Arthas why ?*
It's too late !
And 2 Warriors spec are more than enough !
End this class's sufforing and fuse Fury and Arm to have the perfect warrior dps spec !
Follow me Warriors !Comment by ChaxtonI've never enjoyed Arms because it's got too many extra buttons and has almost always been less powerful than Fury. I'm still not fond of the excessive amount of buttons for its rotation, but it definitely sounds better in Shadowlands. Though, it's still a warrior; we're going to be nearly useless until the last patch, like always. I say "nearly" because Feral still exists, but still! I'll give Arms a shot, even though I've never enjoyed it in prior expansions. Maybe it'll be worth playing over Fury for once.

I'm going Ardenweald on my warrior. There is OBJECTIVELY never enough mobility. The rage generation is nice, but extra mobility is always nice. Especially when you don't have charge and heroic leap available. My main warrior is a Velf, so I also have that 3m utility teleport (which is SORELY underestimated, my god), but I'm going Ardenweald for even more mobility. I love my mobility, and I get irrationally mad when mobility is taken from me. More options to keep moving means I'm happier. Also, main reason for going Night Fae is because of the transmog. It's a known and objective fact that better transmog translates to better dps.Comment by AnimeLeechthey need to make arms a crit spec instead of a haste spec.

they can slow down the rotation as much as they need to if they want, but if you reward the player's patience with 100% crits, then it satisfies the specs theme of slow meaningful attacks and satisfies the players cuz seing those numbers just POP on your screen and have them be HUUGE numbers, is just oh so satisfying.

then a talent like "focused rage" which does nothing immediately but rewards people that stack it would make a lot more sense. it always feels like garbage when the big heavy attack never crits and does garbage dmg.

idk why blizz thought haste was the solution for this but it's not. it's crit. certain moves/talents should be "guaranteed to crit" and just give us stuff to do in between like stacking short term buffs(focused rage stacks/overpower stacks) and bleed/dot management. (rend/deep wounds)

the concept has been there all along. they're very close. but instead of those stacks simply "increasing dmg of X" it should just be "increases crit chance to 100% and dmg by x%"

to compensate for absurd damage, they would just need to slow it down further by making all the other attacks weaker thus accomplishing the specs theme.

MS and execute should be the only ones to guarantee to crit (and guarantee to hit imo) after building them up with all available stacks. everything else should be nerfed to balance the dmg.

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The State of Arms Warriors on the Shadowlands Beta

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