Comments

Comment by 169612

Very strong staff for DPS
gives 3227 Ap in cat form with 3/3 survival of the fittest and 5/5 heart of the wild
drops form Kel'thuzad in 25 man naxxramas

Edit: The staff looks like a Stag , it would be cool using it with https://www.wowhead.com/cata/itemset=214

Comment by Nulgar

This has the same model as the staff of Broll Bearmantle from the WoW Comic. How this would end up in Naxxramas is as unclear as Grom's Axe being in the possession of an Eredar in Karazhan ;)

On Fruitcase' note about this staff fitting to Stormrage Raiment, Broll wears at least shoulders and belt of this set (chest is different, the rest of the items I couldn't confirm with the screens at hand) when you find him in Stormwind Harbor, though the shoulders look kinda different in the comic, but that may depend on Lullabi's interpretation of them, plus the ingame model might not reflect entirely what Blizzard planned for this item.

Comment by 212156

The name of this staff may allude to the play of the same name by R.C Sheriff, or perhaps more likely a line from Shakespeare's Othello. However, in either case, the link between the sources and the staff is tenuous due to the lack of any other significant attributes to the staff (for example, flavour text).

Nee

Comment by Nulgar

Haste does not affect the global cooldown of physical abilities! It does, however, decrease the time between white melee attacks and thus increase white dps and increase the number of Omen procs*, as that will only proc from white attacks anymore (and spells, though not from FFF)
*cata edit* Haste also increases "the rate at which you gain energy, runes, and focus"

* or weapon enchant ones, as those by now proc in forms, too

Comment by Abraxxes

the haste really isn't that good, i mean i believe i have like 54 haste rating in my dps gear(maybe more) but it only made my attack speed from 1.00 to .98, its as useless as stacking haste as boomkin considering it doesn't combine well with our 1.5 sec wraths

so to sum it up imo we don't need it and would be better if we had something else, unless you plan on tanking with it which is fairly nice seeing as i think im down to a 2.17 from 2.5 second attack speed

Comment by ArmenianGod

Heh, End of Dreams dropped in the old Naxx, now we have the Jouney's End. Blizzard seems to like rewording old items to mean the same thing don't they.

Comment by Vash379

Haste does not affect the GCD of melee abilities. Maul is not and was never on the GCD. Instead Maul functions exactly like Heroic Strike and Cleave. It is an attack that modifies the next white attack and is thus adjusted by the swing timer.

So in a way yes, haste does help maul. It does not affect the GCD.

Comment by asloversgo

It's... a horned horse. That is not a unicorn.

Comment by 234845

what tabard is the ne female druid using that matches t7 25. is it the defilers tabard?

Grateful for answers

Comment by 112308

https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=38309 I believe this is the tabard that you're looking for Unclebens.

Comment by 234845

Thank you kirkus and krevitz!, definetely not defilers, what was i thinking? :D and it looks very similar to tabard of nature!

Comment by droeber

Sadly, enchants don't show up on this weapon. Still, a fantastic piece of gear.

Comment by Bareno

What this item may look like after the 3.0.8 feral weapon changes, taken from This post.

Journey's End
Binds when picked up Staff
606 - 910 Damage Speed 3.40
(222.9 damage per second)
+87 Agility
+114 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 80
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 57 (1.24% @ L80).
Equip: Improves haste rating by 75 (2.29% @ L80).
Equip: Increases attack power by 266

So apparently the conversion from weapon DPS to Feral AP is 14*(DPS-55).

EDIT: Well he was kinda close... Link, Someone screwed up on the attack power conversion through from STR...

Comment by TheTacomaster

For some reason, this reminds me of a more civilized version of the Dreadmist argument back pre-BC.

Intended for one class, but still usable for others, and some might see it as unfair.

Comment by 180961

The staff Journey's End looks like Brool Bearmantle´s staff

Comment by 144183

Is this weapon, after 3.0.8, viable for an Arms warrior? Or does it not count as a melee weapon and would screw up all your attacks? I am a paladin and since I can't use staves I haven't really delved into their nature.

Because if it's possible, an ilevel 226 isn't something to dismiss just because of its looks.

Comment by 175088

In response to all the posters who stated that this item should not ever go to a hunter, including honnou's post:

Only usable in the sense that it's not class restricted. While a Hunter could use it - for whatever reason a hunter would, be it a lack of a Druid in the raid or whatever - without a doubt, this weapon is intended for druids. It's not like putting +hit or +mp5 on a staff and letting Warlocks, Mages and Priests fight over it.

Unless Hunters can shapeshift now.

This weapon is being severely modified and will now be best in slot for a hunter. Although it is just a stat stick, much like a bow or gun would be to a warrior or rogue, it does not change that this is the best item in the game at the present moment.

Journey's End
Binds when picked up Staff
606 - 910 Damage Speed 3.40
(222.9 damage per second)
+87 Agility
+114 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 80
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 57 (1.24% @ L80).
Equip: Improves haste rating by 75 (2.29% @ L80).
Equip: Increases attack power by 228

Honnou, where in the item description does it state that a hunter has to shapeshift?

Now, with that all being said, I do agree that if there are Feral Druids in the raid that this item should be given to them first. However, sans Feral Druids, this item should be given to a hunter over an offspec druid (Resto or Boomkin) as this is going to increase the hunter's main raiding spec DPS and help the raid group, oppose to helping someone's offspec. And any hunter NOT taking this item and letting it get sharded is a complelte idiot (almost happened to our raid group, I had to force another hunter to take it as I already have one for myself).

Comment by FinalValkyrie

As a Hunter, I know that this Staff weill be best-in-slot for us if we're hit capped from our other gear (in that case Black Ice is better.)

But would I take this before a Feral Druid? Hell no. Would I take it before a Druid wanted it for offspec? Yes.

Thing people have to realise is that yes its a Feral Staff, but now with the changes, far less of these will be getting disenchanted and helping out the raid as a whole.

People just need to not be stupid loot &*!@#s and think about whats best for their guild, not themselves.

Comment by 282039

This is an amazing weapon for a hunter, and I'll roll on it given two conditions:

1) that's it's a bigger upgrade for me than it is for a melee class in the raid (i.e. Feral Druid, since offhand I can't think of anyone else who'd want this)

2) That there isn't another hunter in my raid who has worse gear than me and who is good enough to use this well.

To me, the comparison of "this should always go to such-and-such of a class" doesn't quite make sense... I'd rather have everyone in my raid get a relatively large upgrade than a particular class get a small upgrade (especially on a guild run). So... I won't roll on this for a while, since I just got https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=40208#dropped-by. But at the same time, if a feral druid in my guild has that polearm, or Undeath Carrier, I'll ask them to stand down on this item and let a worse-geared hunter get it.

Comment by 308414

Feral mainspec>hunter>feral offspec

It's the same thing as hunter priority on ranged weapons over melee such as warriors and rogues who want to use that bow for a stat stick.
This staff is a hunter statstick and they will not use the dps of the weapon at all.

So, ferals will utilize the weapon dps as well as every stat that a hunter will use.
Same thing goes for polearms.

Comment by 222376

Ugh, well I know I'm gonna get downrated for this, but let's try to hear me out before we cast judgement.
My main is a hunter (dodges tomatoes thrown), and i feel i need to say, if Black Ice can be a druid weapon now, even though it was a hunter polearm before, why can't we roll on this now?

Comment by 161072

Personaly I won't pass this item for any druid unless their slot is filled with something inferiour to what I'm wielding.
Why?
Because what we used to consider a hunter weapon such as Black Ice,Wraith Spear or Cryptfiend's Bite , gives FAP now aswell so druids aren't restricted to their staffs anymore, would you pass on those aswell then for a Feral druids?
I don't think you would have done that pre-3.0.8 so I assume you won't do that now.
If hunters should pass on everything with FAP then we would have to pass on ALL those polearms that once were hunter items because Druids can use them aswell now, that would leave us with almost no weapons that will be considert hunter items anymore!

So I would say: If druids can need roll on our polearms because of the change in patch 3.0.8 then hunters can roll on their staffs without having to feel bad because it has FAP! The only 'druid' staffs that we hunter's shouldn't roll on are those that have Armor or expertise on them ofc such as Origin of Nightmares, Staff of the Plaguehound, Staff of the Plague Beast!

Luckily there are still staffs that don't need argumentation such as Greatstaff of the Nexus spell power ftw

What about ranged weapons then?
Well there are alot less of those than there are polearms and staffs. It's true most people pass on ranged upgrades for hunters because it's common sense, hunters are the only class that actualy use a ranged weapon all the time.
Staffs and polearms are something diffrent, back in the days of Black Temple High, when there wasn't any FAP on polearms, Warlord Naj'entus dropped Halberd of Desolation alot of retri pala's wanted it aswell and that was even more so with Shivering Felspine. Now everyone assumsed it was a hunter item and that it should go to hunters first even tho we only use them for the stats while the pala would have used it to actualy hit something nobody complained about that, so why would staffs and polearms have druid prio because they use them to hit stuff? or because they have FAP? No in my opinion both druid and hunters have the same amount of prio on staffs and polearms.
If you pass for a druid it shouldn't be because it has FAP and he uses it to "hit" stuff, it should be out of the overal good
Hunter: -"Oh this is a greater upgrade for me and you but because I already have Cryptfiend's Bite and you only have Staff of Trickery I'll pass for you!"
Druid: -"Cool thank you mate!"

And not:
Druid: -"Hey hunter! It's has FAP so it's a druid item! So you can't roll/bid on it because I'm a druid and its an upgrade for me!"
Hunter: -"But it's an upgrade for me aswell and I still use Whale-Stick Harpoon a blue! While you already have The Undeath Carrier!"
Druid: -"But it has FAP so I have prio! Learn to like it!"

Just use your common sense on items, pass when others benefit from it more, bid on it when it's about an equal upgrade for the both of you just like you would with Tier tokens, and if the hunter wins the bid then it means the Staff i worth more to the hunter than it is to the druid OR the hunter has more dkp and thus its only fair and if the druid wins the bid its just the same. And in the end everyone will be happy, and nobody can say there was injust behaviour in the looting.
Thats how I feel about it.

Comment by 256

Recently got this as there were no ferals in my raid. Looks great, and helps a lot, but Massacre (+110AP) is not showing up on the staff.

Comment by 279803

Melee is a feral's main source of DPS. Ranged is a hunter's main source of DPS. Rolling on this over a feral is akin to a rogue rolling on your Thori'dal, Stars Fury because it has better item stats. To claim priority as a ranged dps class on a melee weapon is a pretty selfish stance. (As a side note, feral cannot even use ranged items for stats.)

Also, at best this is a side-grade compared to Black Ice for a hunter. There are better items providing equal to better gains if you want to play the hit cap game. You can even use the stat weights in this database to see. Or load up Rawr and check.

Comment by 259471

I agree to the fact that both classes should roll on because it is an upgrade for both of them. (if not then we have other problems to worry about) The fact that hunters are trying to say they should always get to roll on it with druids is kind of stupid. I wouldn't be surprised if one of you hunters got a ranged weapon and took it anyway even tho the stats would really help a rogue or warrior. Yet that's common sense in WoW right? It's the same situation just different weapon type and different classes. A feral druid will use the melee weapon more over a hunter just like a hunter will use a ranged weapon more over a rogue or warrior.

Now someone asked "then what do we get to roll on?" fact is your just like those warriors/rogues. Some guilds will let you roll on them when some won't let you. Most of them will let you anyhow since there is a lot more stats on polearms/staves VS. a ranged weapon.

FYI - Druids do dps now ladies and gentlemen and are excellent at it. For those who don't think so >.>

Anystasia: "i dont see how any hunter saw this as opening up more options to them it just took away their protected status on pole arms and made them second to all melee on all weapons they can use..." - exactly....

Comment by 312201

This item is, without a doubt, the best inslot item for hunters of any specc or feral dps.

To whom this should go, or should go first, is up to each raid on it's own.

Though it should be considered that this weapon will be a primary DPS tool for feral cats, while it is "only" a stat weapon for a hunter.
So personally I would thend to say that it should go to the feral cat first, for the same reason for wich good bows/guns should go to hunters first and not offwarris or rogues. Since it would only be stat weapons for them.
Of course one could always say "dude, shut up. We have DKP and we handle it our way." But then again following that logic we saw rogues with Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury in TBC. And I would leave it to every one to think how intelligent that was.

One more side note. This is NOT a tanking weapen for a druid. It has no Mitigation stats on it (armor, dodge) and even less stamina and agility than Staff of Trickery (+89 Agility +133 Stamina).
So if you decided you are a tankdruid, aka bear, and tanking only, than the hunter should still get it first since it would be for farming/pvp only. Like offgear wor a protwarrior.

Comment by Talamare

Ive been wondering this for a while now

the Feral attack power affects moonkin as well, but moonkin bashes with normal weapon hits instead of a specialty weapon like bear and cat, which would effectively give them double the dps listed on the weapon, couldnt you make a melee moonkin using moonfire, insect swarm and potentially 'weaving' your wraths in between melee hits with a build sort of like this https://www.wowhead.com/cata/talent=0VGbuVcsczhhZxRhscMZ0E0d

Comment by 226817

I think it is interesting that hunters to claim equal rights against a feral cat when they want protected loot status for guns over melee classes

Might have something to do with the fact that DPS output increase from stats of ranged weapons for melee class is really poor compared to increase of DPS output from melee statstick for hunters.

and if it comes to comparison of pure DPS on melee vs. ranged (i know that this not ideal situation for either side): when melee class shoots from Kel'Thuzad 25 gun, he is at 155 DPS. When hunter swings with this staff, he is at 225 DPS

This is why hunters want protected loot on guns (non tanking) over melee classes

Comment by 226817

load up Rawr and check

I hope you dont mind using EJ spreadsheet as it is more versatile. So i did use EJ and what are the outcomes? Currently I (hitcapped BM hunter) am sporting 2098 DPS totally unbuffed, weilding Runeblade of Demonstrable Power. Let's see:

at best this is a side-grade compared to Black Ice

I equipped Black Ice and got 2112 DPS.
I equipped Journey's End and got 2135 DPS.
This is clearly not "a sidegrade at best" but quite an upgrade even if you were weilding Black Ice before (and you still are hitcapped even without it - my case)

There are better items providing equal to better gains if you want to play the hit cap game

Please, link some. I didnt find any... Thanks

Comment by FyreRT

Does NOT SHOW Massacre or Greater Savagery glow's.

Comment by 61826

Actually this is a very very very good weapon for hunter!
with 315 AP + 110 AP (enchant) = 425 AP
c.a. 2,12% Critical Chance
and interesting haste boost...

maybe is the best weapon for hunter...

Comment by 186909

Despite it not being a tanking weapon i think it should still be Cat priority and hunter/tank as equal priority.

The Feral tank (though yes they can be MT's) make the best offtank right now, simply because out of the four tanks they are able to swich between tanking and dpsing most efficiently. Followed closely by Death Knights. That is why you bring ferals, we will be tanking trash one pull, dpsing the next, DPSing on Instructor, Tanking in four horseman, picking up adds in Grobbulus, and eating hatefuls in patchwerk all in the same night. As a feral tank i try not to take DPS gear, but if i do nothing to maximize my dps by getting and enchanting that second set, then bringing me becomes a moot point.

Also simply put cat priority for the same reason other 1H weapons go to rouges/shamans etc. there are DEFINATELY items out there itemized for hunters better than druids and vice versa, but when they overlap as closely as this does the melee should get it. Pre 3.0.8 Betrayer of Humanity wouldn't have gone to a hunter, why should this go to them now?

I also find it funny how if you go to betrayer's page there's a bunch of hunters yelling "BEST IN SLOT!" but suddenly black ice is #2 and people forgot betrayer conveniently when a better weapon drops off KT.

Long story short: you want protection for your bows, rouges/shamans get protection for their swords/daggers/axes. Why shouldn't druids get protection for their staffs?

Also there have been arguments that https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=40406 is a better dps weapon than this for feral druids because of the strength scaling with kings etc... but thats a whole nother debate, though personally this is such a sexy looking staff i'd take it over that mace anyway just cuz it looks that good... (i am of the school that this staff is better but its more of a /discuss thing)

Comment by 127767

With the druid armor changes in 3.08, this is now a pretty viable tanking weapon. Weapons are no longer considered in the armor bonus, and losing 600 from 30k+ armor is not a huge consideration. If this is an upgrade for a druid tank, it's still as viable as any hunter or other class upgrade.

Comment by qlhund

There's some debate on that actually. Neither Hunters or Druids actually do damage with their melee weapons

Thats not actually true.. As there is atleast one feral skill i know of that uses melee dps.. The new catform AoE ability Swipe (Cat).

Comment by 207272

My main is a survival hunter. I've been looking up various weapons for my wishlist since my guild is getting into heroic raids. I've been comparing the various "stat sticks" that I would want to be using. I've seen other hunters using two one hand weapons, this staff, various axes, swords, and polearms.
I see people saying that hunters can roll for this weapon. But I have to say that based on talents, if a feral druid can get almost 4000 AP from this weapon, whereas I would only get almost 400 (before enchant) it's obvious who would get the biggest gain just from the attack power.
Yeah 400 AP is nice, but with four druids in my guild, even the resto that we have takes priority for this in my opinion. Perhaps if it drops and all of our druids already get it, MAYBE I'll roll for it. But if I already got Black Ice and got it enchanted, I doubt it.

Comment by 252100

The truth is, this staff has ~20 more dps than other similar cat twohander, so ferals can get more benefit from this than hunters ever will. That means the "hunter vs feral" discussion is unnecessary, at least while hunters have priority on bow/gun because of its dps (and so be it). This is so obvious.

(and, if you are hit capped when you grab the Black Ice, just replace some of your hit rating gem or trinket to another useful stat, and your problem is solved)

Comment by banananaz

Well if I still had the staff of trickery, and the feral in my raid had black ice then would any of you say it is fair for me to roll on the staff as well as the feral? Just for the record I would definitely let a feral druid roll on this first before hunters, since it is a stat stick.

Comment by mazhop

As a SV hunter, I have zero problems letting someone other than a hunter roll for a ranged weapon as long as I get the same courtesy in return for a melee weapon. BiS is BiS period regardless of class. Personally, If we have anyone to blame, it's Blizz for removing the restrictions in the first place.

Comment by 321339

do i get the 2353ap + the 228 ap if i'm in cat form or is it what converts to give me the 2353?

Comment by 187464

Finally a staff usable by hunters...i have been itching for one since Lok'delar

Comment by 226817

If you guys think that hunters shouldnt roll for this because it is just a "statstick", how about getting rid of your enchants or gems? You dont "use" them, they "only" give you stats! I know, there isnt competition over enchants and gems but the idea is: why would you force a hunter to give up significant amount of stats when yourselves are stockpiling them at the same time? Isnt it enough that hunters have to pay for every single shot they fire, they have one bag less and their weapons lack stats? Now we will forbid them to have best possible stats?

Comment by 226817

hoe can you even bother to equalize an item with an enchant

- I do, because hunters are known to take melee weapons only as statsticks. And statstick has no other use than to give you stats which just what gems and enchants do. That is why I bothered.

Would you give up your envoy of mortality over a druid if they could use it...?

No, i wouldnt give it up. But I would have to expect competition over it in case they would have better use for it than for idols or as good use for it as hunters have for statsticks. (But you know, since ranged weapons have very low stats...)

Comment by 259471

And now after patch hunters cant even see FAP on this staff so they cannot be accused for ninjaing: "Hey, it has FAP, it is druid weapon, you cant roll for it"

If your a smart person you would know that FAP is on every weapon a druid can use. If you don't know what a druid can use, use 5 seconds of your time to ask or check.

DPS warriors or rogues having ranged weapon for stats can make not even half as good use of it as hunter can do of his melee statstick. Why? just compare the stats of ranged and melee 2H of the same iLevel.

That still doesn't give them a priority.

I agree with: Gun stats < 2hand stats

But I also agree with: 2hand stats < 2hand stats + FAP

The gain for a rogue/warrior vs a hunter with a ranged weapon is a huge difference but also the gain from hunter vs a druid is also a huge difference. Following your logic (if i misunderstood than correct me) that hunters should get priority over ranged weapons? If that is true then your also saying feral druids should get priority over FAP weapons also.

I'm not saying that just saying hunters pretty much lost their protected priority over polearms and have to roll on them like everything else.

Comment by 147350

This sux ... now huntards are gona move in on my druid items :( ...

Comment by 324073

Any Hunter that pass's this loot up is a huntard, I have personally seen a feral druid dps less with this staff in raids, then a hunter with Cryptfeinds Bite, this staff is absolutly hunter material, just like Black Ice is hunter/druid material because of the huge amount of hit a druid needs in cat dps, overall, the weapons are equal in there stats, but one class will benefit from it more depending upon how it will be played with.

Comment by banananaz

Well I won this today when we finished our 25m run. All we had left was KT, but we ended up having to pug like 2 hunters so I lost the roll on the gun (I have the crossbow from UK) but I did manage to win this since there wasn't any feral druids ^_^

It sucks that greater savagery doesn't show up on it, but it is still pretty awesome.

Comment by 259471

With your logic....your basically saying hunters and rogues should roll on ranged weapons even if theres a hunter that would want it badly.

Yes stats for ranged weapons vs a 2 hander, the 2 hander will of course win. but with a 2 hander the amount of FAP added for feral druids would be far more superior for them as well.

Isnt it enough that hunters have to pay for every single shot they fire, they have one bag less and their weapons lack stats? Now we will forbid them to have best possible stats?

- A class has something annoying about? ...omg...
- Don't play a class if you don't like the "restrictions" on a class
- You don't need regeants for buffs. (doesn't equal out with the amount of money spent on ammo but still)
- If you really carry that much stuff to fill 4 bags...go to the bank
- If can't deal with the fact that you have to pay a very small amount of money to get ammo out of the money that you should be getting then all i can say is....go QQ

I do agree that hunters can need if they want because it would be a big upgrade just
Come up with a better argument please....

Comment by whitedragon254

heres how i see it goes in the loot tower:

Feral
If no feral goes to Hunter
if no hunter OR feral, i have no friggin clue how you got this far.

Comment by 259471

I am basically saying that I expect a feral druid to roll on Black Ice even when there is a hunter that needs it badly (and that has the same opportunity to win the roll)

First off, that barely had anything to do with your original post...

You said that even if it the stave is just a stat stick for hunters they should roll on it. My point was it is the exact same case for warriors/rogues for ranged weapons just smaller stats.

If you believe that warriors/rogues shouldnt roll on ranged weapons vs a hunter that needs it then its the same thing for druids. Druids get ALOT more benefit then hunters do.

If you dont then just saying, expand your argument.

- I pretty much like playing hunter, even with those "restrictions" (like you have to use two different ammo bags for guns and bows/xbows.

Then deal with it.

For grinding, to have 20 slots in bag or not to have them is a difference

You expect me to believe that u grind so much that u fill not even 20 slot bags but lets go with 14 slot bags? Even me after grinding about 3 hours i can only fill maybe 2 bags. Then I go to a vendor that may take like 1 min to get to. If its mats your farming most of them can be condensed/stack so it wouldn't be likely that you fill all your bags with mats.

It costs almost 100G to fulfill ammo pouch with bullets. It might be a "very small amount" or it might not... it depends on point of view

Those bullets are made by a profession...get some from a vendor they are much cheaper...if u cant deal with that small dps you should have got the profession. If you do grind as much as you suggest then the money shouldn't be a problem anyhow.

Comment by 255728

I just got this staff on my hunter last night as well and enchanted it with massacre and im told that the enchantments on this weapond do not show.

Comment by 98621

HA! Druid staff my butt, It drops it is going on my hunter unless the feral has more dkp. No one class is entitled to any one peice, if you can use it and it is an uprade then you would be nuts to pass on it.

If you want to get upset at someone then get upset at Blizzard for combining both of our classes best in slot on this piece, it is an setup....meh sry! Remember it will drop again....anyway new content is almost out any way and soon at best this will be vendor trash when they finally release true raiding content and leave this ezmode crude behind.

Comment by Mafan

Goodbye, Wil Wheaton.

Comment by 179945

Took this as a sv hunter last night in Naxx25 (first time guild clear aswell)... rolled on feral druids? heck yes! So what if it is best in slot for them, its best in slot for me too! Anyone who says that Black Ice is better is so very wrong... as a sv hunter I only need a hit rating of around 175 (with my talents and a drenai in grp). My guild runs WWS (Wow Web Stats) and after an entire Naxx25 clear I was only missing 0.1% of my autoshots, the rest was 100% hit.

Any guild that will not let a hunter roll against a feral druid on this piece should really think hard about what is better than this for a hunter? Some might say Betrayer of Humanity but it is not... compare the two and see!

Of course... if I was already using Black Ice or Betrayer of Humanity then I would not roll on guild feral druids (would roll on a pug tho without a problem).

Armory Link Here

Comment by 152034

Well there is a lot of arguement over who this weapon should go to, but please read the number crunch posts first, this gives a hunter without a weapon 400 attack power non-enchanted, but to a druid without a weapon its 4000 (10 times as much), also you should know as a hunter you have more options for gearing up, you can use staffs, polearms, swords, fists, daggers, and axes as your weapons, while a druid may only use maces staffs and polearms, thus making their itemization tighter.

Personally this should go to whoever does a better job on Kelthuzad (be it a druid or a hunter), I mean even if a hunter has double the DKP of the guild's top feral, if the hunter was melee'ing Kelthuzad (yes I've seen hunters melee him) then obviously it should go to the druid, not the captain of the failboat.

Of course... if I was already using Black Ice or Betrayer of Humanity then I would not roll on guild feral druids (would roll on a pug tho without a problem).

Sorry but no guild in their right mind would give Betrayer to a hunter unless the plate melee dps already have them first, and yes, even the warriors that can duelwield them. Because they MELEE with it, not keep it on their backs while they're using their ranged weapons

Comment by 330389

u dear huntard, are selfish and clueless. this weapon provides nearly 400 more dps for feral druids than their second best weapon. however it only gives hunters 10-30 more dps than black ice. hunters can top the dps meter with average gear, whilst druids are falling behind. in short, u are dumb, this is feral priority.
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This is wrong. Inevitable defeat for example is priority to DK tanks because a stat like expertise on plate/leather or hitrating/manareg on cloth etc much more defines a difference between healing / cast dps or tank / melee dps gear.

This weapon however is a pure dps weapon and every class, in this case feral druids and hunters, has the exact same right to get it.
It went to a hunter in our raid and I was completely ok with it.
Inevitable Defeat went to me although our cat and tg warrior had more dkp than me, everyone was ok with this too.
Dont try to make up rules because you are greedy for epics, be fair.

also you are obviously a scrub, this weapon gives almost 300 ATTACK POWER more than the second best feral dps weapon, not 400 DPS.

Comment by puffinsmuggler

ima try to get this right though im not so sure

though i like black ice better vs this, it seems this is more a feral bear staff rather hunter gear though it does seem logical for a hunter to roll on such if said druid bears have already gotten it rather then shall the hunter go for black ice unless a dk and or dps (cat) druid goes for it correct?

and it seems with the upcomming "impending doom" of said patch where as you can read the patch notes on wowhead, dual specing seems to be implemented in the game thus upon said there will be mroe people going for off spec gear

which bring more people to "raid" more for gear thus delaying people leaving before the next raid is released :)

Comment by 332070

If it were up to most of the rest of you, hunters would get no melee weapon at all. Seriously, look at the comments on most of the melee weapons with hunter stats on them. Don't feel like it? Let me give a quick synopsis:

Hunter: "This weapon has +agi, +stam, +AP, and +crit! It makes a wonderful hunter weapon!"

Druid/Warr/DK (depending on item board): "OH NOES! ANOTHER CLASS WANTS TO ROLL FOR THE SAME LOOTZ AS I DO! ZOMG! HOW DARE THEY WANT STAT UPGRADES! HUNTARD!"

Go QQ to blizzard if you don't like the itemization they have provided for you. It's the nature of the game. And druids- STFU. You are just upset because you have to roll against another class for weapons now. Getting staffs with FAP by default has made you all soft and whiny.

Comment by 332767

I've read all the previous posts and feel the need to state something that hasn't been brought up. I'm not going to restate the obvious difference in ap bonus between kittys and huntards

I would like to address this:

Druid/Warr/DK (depending on item board): "OH NOES! ANOTHER CLASS WANTS TO ROLL FOR THE SAME LOOTZ AS I DO! ZOMG! HOW DARE THEY WANT STAT UPGRADES! HUNTARD!"

Let's think about this for a second.
Hunters can use the following melee weapons:
-1h swords
-2h swords
-1h axes
-2h axes
-fist weapons
-polearms
-staves
-daggers

Druids can use the following melee weapons:
-daggers
-fist weapons
-1h maces
-2h maces
-staves
-polearms

Hunters also have access to stats from guns, bows, and crossbows, whereas druids use idols for a single bonus. Hunters may also dual wield 1h weapons which druids can not do. (I know that 2h weapons have better stats in the long run, just making a point.) And as there are no offhands with feral stats on them, daggers, fist weapons, and 1h maces aren't much use to kitty druids. That leaves us 2h maces, staves, and polearms. But there's a problem with 2h maces - they are all tailored to the plate wearing dps classes and frost DKs. No kitty would ever think about picking up The Jawbone for instance.

So what does that leave kittys:
-staves
-polearms

Hunters still have everything on their list. Before the patch, we didn't have to worry about our only weapons getting poached. Your damn right kitty's are gonna be upset if a hunter rolls on this because, while we do have polearms to use now, they ain't as good as our staves. They're the really only viable weapons we have left, and you huntards think that because blizz lets you use them now, that you have some sort of right to them. You can use just about every weapon in the game. Kittys can't.

Bottom line, this should always go to kittys over hunters. Go play with Black Ice or Betrayer of Humanity and leave Journey's End for it's rightful owners - the Kittys.

Comment by 332767

When we got the power to roll on druid staffs, you got the power to roll on Polearms, so it's a fair trade off imo

Druids got the ability to use worse weapons.
Hunters got the ability to use better weapons, even though they already have a ton of options.

How is that a fair trade?

Comment by 167701

I have both, 80 hunter and feral, and I would far prefer this staff go to my feral before my hunter, sure I'd want it for both, but the feral first by far, and if I was on my hunter for the raid, I'd pass to any kitties before I'd roll.

There is a reason for that.

The feral's benefit from the weapon is far greater then the hunter's, pure and simple.

Less greed more understanding please.

Comment by 332767

Since the dps of your weapon does not effect how much dmg you do in cat or bear form, you cannot really compare this to a rogue rolling on a ranged wep

Yea...actually the dps of the staff DOES directly effect how much damage we do. But as stated in an above post, Blizz knew how stupid it would look if kitties ran around with staves in their mouths, whacking bosses.

Comment by 249472

actually the dps of the staff DOES directly effect how much damage we do

In which case, is this guide wrong? Specifically the part where the poster says

How is damage determined in cat form and bear form? The DPS of your weapon is irrelevant and always will be. Each of your feral forms (bear and cat) has its own built-in weapon with a speed of 2.50 and 1.00, respectively. The base damage range of those weapons depends solely upon your level, and caps out at 55 DPS at level 70. Your “feral weapons” are of course affected by attack power, haste rating, armor penetration, etc. just like any other melee weapon.

I have my hunter at lvl 80 but my drood is only in his 50s. Since reading the guide I have always gone for stats over DPS, even if the difference was a small stat increase and a large drop in dps!

Comment by 193814

I am a druid. Healing mostly in raids but doing arena as feral. Sorry but you are totally stupid if you give this staff to anyone else but a feral if he needs it.

The weapons got changed so a staff like this would not be disenchanted if no feral druid needed it. Just the same with druids being able to use polearms.

Maybe its now by a slim margin also the best weapon for hunters but thats another screw up of blizzard by putting only weapons for certain classes as endboss loot and such as itemlevel 226.

The advantage for hunters is so little that even resto and balance druids should get this staff first if they ever switch to feral for pvp for example.

Giving this staff to a hunter is just like giving betrayer of humanity to him. And on another point...this *!@#ing discussion gets some damned old its even a by now totally unfunny and brainless joke "hunter item!"....

Blizzard was acting carelessly again when they tried to broaden up the usefullness of their loot tables so players could gear faster and wouldn't have to disenchant so many things. Because there is no itemlevel 226 hunter melee weapon that maybe made this staff very slightly better than the next best choice. But it's still a no-brainer that this belongs in the hands of a druid.

Comment by 249472

/agree with what you say except this part.

The advantage for hunters is so little that even resto and balance druids should get this staff first if they ever switch to feral for pvp for example.

My guild runs a system in raids where people get to roll items based on what role they play in that particular raid. It seems to work for them. I won't be rolling on this item however, since raiding is booooring. If you like PvP, just do arena until you get decent weps =p

Comment by 334900

check out the new sexy staff added in the patch

https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=45256#same-model-as

didn't think it was possible to find a better staff then the journey lol

Comment by 54785

As the guilds only feral, raiding with both tank and dps flasks we downed KT HC first time yesterday. 2 Hunters in raid, Gun, Staff, Shield and tokens drop.

We don't use a DKP system for distributing loot, but a council loot. (I was a member for longer, but we (the hunter and me) both play well (Non of council are a druid or have a clue about us i might add tho 1 is hunter).

First item on the loot list is the Gun. Only two gets to need on it. (The hunters offcourse, since they have priority on the ranged weapons.) Fair enought thinks me.

Hunter (a) gets his priority loot. (The officer)

Second item on the menu, this staff.

The hunter and me both have Cryptfiends Bite polearm and both need. The hunter is given it without an explanation.

The warrior tank obviously gets the shield without much fuss.

What have I learned from this incident?

By removing FAP and putting polearm skill on Druids menu we don't gain an option. We loose our most precious weapon, while the hunter gets yet another upgrade possibility. The conclusion is, clear out this before you raid with a guild. I was stupid enought to assume that items would be distributed where it was most usefull (and deserved). I used to play on a server where the top guild gave Thori'dal, the Stars'Fury to a rogue over a hunter and felt sorry for the hunter. Those days are over. I hope that all rogues and warriors out there take wisdom in this. If the stats on a gun can increase your DPS slightly more, while it would benefit a hunter more, need on it. Spend DKP on it. It's the exact same thing. Just another stat boost, and you can argue all you want that this is whine, and yeah, undoubtly it is to some extent, feeling left behind, but not more than it's an item. It will probably drop again. The only thing that anoys me is the principle in it.

Hunters out there, stop beeing greedy/clueless/whatever. It benefits a cat ALOT more than it benefits you. Let your kittens have this before taking it yourself. If noone else needs this, take it, don't let it go to waste.

Comment by 338964

great hunter wep 2

Comment by Feldorn

Call me dumb, but since Druids now can use polearms i see no problem with this staff going to a Hunter. In my opinion Feral Druids and Hunters should both have the same prio on this.

Comment by Rauno

I cant help but to think of stick horses whenever I see this weapon ingame.. Really.

Comment by Fallerup

technically, druids do not use this staff to hit with, they use their claws :D so, it is a stat booster for druid as well. You cannot say a druid uses this staff to hit with like a rogue or warrior uses a sword, that's wrong.

to backwards:

yes, and if all think like you, hunters wouldn't be allowed to roll on any melee weapon unless every melee class had it or didn't want it, which is unfair imo. yes Betrayer of humanity is a stat stick to us, like any melee weapon, but should a melee get prio on it? No! It should be your own choice what you use your dkp on, but any person in their right mind would pass such a weapon to a warrior (betrayer of humanity) because there are better stat sticks out there for us, like this thing. A perfect and insane sample of this was that the orange bow from sunwell was given to a rogue. It shocked the wow community so hard that we still feel the aftershocks of the effect. The person playing that rogue was a greedy sob and nothing anyone should look up to.

Comment by 295855

I was so close to getting that staff as well, but of course I am not so much luck on rolls, and I'm actusually suppose to be 10 naxx as of my gear as a hunter, but of course this other higher geared then mines hunter roll 4 higher then my roll. The huntard is higher gear then I am too, can't these tards ever give the lowbies a break -.-

Comment by 340800

I was lucky enough to have enough DKP points to bid on this. Only 1 other druid had enough points and I won the roll. I am a hunter by the way and who ever says to let the druid have it is crazy. I had the points and had the option, so I took it

Comment by 341585

for godsake hunters, pass this down to droods

Comment by 342816

Has any hunter besides myself ever noticed that we dont have good weapon drops apparently? ANYTHING that drops that we'd roll on, dks warriors even paladins, but Especially druids try to say 'no thats not a hunter weapon its just best in slot for you but not me <for any 2h dps class, betrayer of humanity is better for example> im taking it'

wait it gets better.

10 man maly. black ice dropped. both hunters rolled, and the feral druid tank. not only did the druid lose the roll to both of us, but he had a better weapon i forget now what it was but he was losing quite a bit of health even for a druid And losing some dodge to gain .23 hit. so he ninja'd it. this same druid proceeded to get the journey staff in the same day.

man oh man i wish people were competent.

Drauka

- You still go by favortism rules? Oh I'm sorry I meant that DKP system someone came up with to get all the loot he could -

Comment by 304149

The discussion is quite out of hand and annoying. Yes, a feral druid needs this a lot. So does a hunter. And to all the jerk offs that's comparing hunters rolling on this over feral druids is the same as warriors and rogues taking Envoy of Mortality over hunters.

Firstly: Have you even considered that a melee weapon gives pretty much three times the stats of a ranged weapon that's equal in item level? That's where the importance of a "stat-stick" steps in for a hunter. I get a lot, and I mean a lot of my attack power, crit rating, haste rating etc. from my melee weapon and NOT from my ranged weapon, which merely is what I'm using for the dps. So, when a hunter rolls on a melee weapon that could go to a feral druid he does it for some serious stats improvements, which most of you seem to miss. When a warrior rolls on a ranged weapon, he gains minimal stats that's a very small boost, hardly noticable in the dps. There is a big difference.

Secondly: Arms warriors, can they roll on this? Yes, warriors can use staffs and the dps of this staff is equal to Betrayer of Humanity. For an arms warrior, this could actually be pretty much the same in a boost as Betrayer of Humanity. So shouldn't the formula be something like: Feral druid / Arms Warrior > Hunter > Feral Druid off spec? And well, according to most of the arguments I've read I get the impression that you agree with that this would be nice for an arms warrior.

Comment by 346199

I, (being a hunter) think thats its an equal upgrade and to both hunters and druids. its all about mitigation . Druids benefit more on the feral ap ,while hunters benefit from haste , the "1agility=1ap" +stamina if survival specc'ed . where hunters need bows and guns there are alternatives for the other classes (thrown weapons) that have equal stats. on 2H weapons though "we shall not roll against a warrior" "we shall not roll against a druid". If there were comparable alternatives sure i wouldnt roll on this but there arent any .. Else look it that way : warlocks mages and priests have to fight on the same weapons ,why shouldnt we ?

Comment by 259471

@ hoboza

my god calm down. Are you offended or something?

exactly? exactly what, that hunters are now somehow secondary to their own best in slot items? whats next shaman offspec being more important than hunter mainspec? hold on ima go respec to mend pet

Yup...secondary to best in slot item...I will explain one more time arguing is dumb.

Hunter have priority over bows because warriors and rogues only use the stats on them. Same concept with two handed weapons.

Random person: "But wait, the stats on a ranged weapon are alot smaller then that of a two hander! So of course something with bigger stats shouldn't be given over so lightly."

Alright you got me there....Oh wait! Feral druids gain 2,300 AP from this staff (3,500 with talents). Does a hunter get that? no. Yes the 2,300 AP is given because the weapon damage isn't used by feral druids but I'll quote myself.

The ap gained is basically like getting the dps boost of the staff...except blizzard thought "Hey lets NOT make cats look stupid by holding a staff in their mouth and start whacking people with it."

understand? Here's analogy for ya: I would give a toy to a child who would play with it. Not a child that will just look at it.

Comment by fugazzi

Raiding kittys? The last time I saw one of those, he was respeccing to resto.

Comment by 282166

This is good for hunters, no doubt. But the DPS gain a hunter gets from this is about half what a druid will get, assuming both the hunter and druids have decent weapons to start with. The reason a druid should have priority over staffs is because of the enormous amount of AP we get from it. About half of our AP comes straight from the staff, 228+2353*1.20=3097 AP, just from this staff alone.

Comment by kaze950

As a hunter, if this drops, I would most likely let a feral druid have it (unless I saw another hunter roll for it and the ML allowing it...might as well take advantage then). Luckily, the raid group I'm usually in only has trees and boomkins, so in that case going to a hunter >>> offspec.

Comment by 349084

When you say that hunters are only using it as a stat stick and shouldn't get it over a druid you are kinda wrong because that is exactly what druids use it for you don't see a druid in cat form beating on a guy with the staff he uses the FAP from the weapon so both hunters and druids use this as a stat stick

Comment by 331656

Guys, I saw it pointed out once already in a rather garbled post, but I'm going to point it out again. While your staff/polearm/gun, stat stick/main dps analogy is a good one, and still an extremely large consideration when deciding who to give this weapon to, it is somewhat flawed by the availability of the above weapons.

With a quick search I can find 5 epic guns/bows/crossbows that drop in Naxx, compared to 10 epic staves, polearms, and two handed maces.

When looking at the issue of granting ranged loot protection to hunters, but denying 2 hander loot protection to ferals, you have to take into consideration that there are twice as many two handers for ferals to get as there are ranged weapons for hunters to get. With the addition of expertise and armor on some of the two handers mentioned (and therefore the exclusion of hunters on those weapons), the argument of letting hunters compete with ferals for this weapon is supported even further.

Comment by 174693

In 3.1, Journey's End will now show enchants.

Comment by Votkrath

I both have a hunter and a feral druid that I would like to have this on both of them. With my hunter I wouldn't mind losing it to a druid and on my druid I wouldn't mind losing it to a hunter. What makes me think both classes should be equal priority to this staff is actually because both Hunters and Druids can use Polearms and Staffs, if both the classes benefit from it the most. BUT, before druids could actually use Polearms I would actually pass this on my Hunter to a Druid because of the variety of weapon types that Hunters can use, especially Polearms which Druids could actually use now so I don't see a problem.

It's the same as saying that a hunter should get priority on Betrayer of Humanity because the stats are in general raw hunter stats except for the agi/sta balance and say that Warriors should use other weapons such as Armageddon because of something that is very valuable for a Warrior that Betrayer of Humanity actually lacks.

People that are arguing about a weapon are usually pugers or in a guild that haven't managed to get 25man raids going because if you are in a good raiding guild or community you shouldn't be arguing about a weapon and look at the progress of the guild instead look into who actually needs it and do not look at the class principle and look at how the class can currently benefit from it and so on.

In other words:
Only because a type of weapon is commonly related to a certain class doesn't mean there is a law that only gives the opportunity to that class to use it otherwise you will be killed or something. It doesn't make sense at all. C'mon, it's a couple of pixels you are fighting over, behave!

Comment by vanquished14

Heh, the way I see it, IF the staff is an upgrade for both a Hunter and a Druid (pre-3.1 BIS for both) why not let both roll so everyone gets an equal opportunity for an upgrade? Fighting amongst guildies about who is "deserving" seems pointless and will only lead to unneeded tension.

Comment by 288482

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QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

fixed that for ya.

Comment by 193445

Although I play neither a hunter nor a druid as my main toon, it's still necessary as a raid leader to understand the mechanics of the game.

The bottom line is that a gun or a bow for a hunter is basically like a wand for a mage or priest - aside from the damage of the weapon, that stats granted by it are negligable.

What is true, is that a stick/spear for a hunter is just an enormous of an upgrade as it is for a feral druid. YES, dps on a weapon now converts to AP for a druid, however, the argument that this brings these weapons 'over the ledge' and into the 'druid weapon' category is completely moot. Think about how stupid it is to argue that because "X" item gives a druid 2.5k AP and a hunter only 500 - You need more buck for the bang as a druid (you need more AP for each point of damage, it's an equalizer)

Keeping that in mind, I do understand Blizzard is getting lazy and is trying to cram as many different classes into each item so we are consistantly rolling against 10-15 other players (i.e. 25 man Vanquisher token), it is still necessary to take precautions to make sure you arent giving the gear to the wrong class. Melee or tank stats such as expertise and armor mean, GIVE IT TO THE MELEE DPS OR TANK.

Sadari
p.s. I miss BC when the term feral druid was just like saying druid tank. Now Blizzard had to go and bring back feral dps... I finally completed my Shadowcraft set after almost a year and a half of losing rolls, and now I have to lose other misc leather. Curse you!

p.s.s. STOP ROLLING ON ROGUE WEAPONS HUNTARDS, YOU DO NOT NEED A DUAL WIELD SET.

Comment by 109530

Although it is no longer a downright "best-in-slot" option for a 2h melee accessory for hunters (due to the inevitable implementation of Ulduar), it is by far the best pre-ulduar 2h melee weapon for a hunter, regardless of spec.

One particular note to all the druids who keep whispering hunters and trying to convince them not to go for this, and all the death knights, warriors, and paladins who insist that 2h axes and polearms are better suited for melee purposes:

The significance of a 2h wep for a hunter is nothing new. Maybe we all remember Sonic Spear being a valued melee option for hunters seeking to start raiding in BC? Right now, upgrading from a +hit dual weild combination with double Accuracy (a maximum potential of over 110 hit rating) to this staff (with Massacre) is as much an upgrade as going from Arrowsong to Envoy of Mortality. This is, of course, taking into account the movement of 2 talent points into Focused Aim.

So, all this jabbering may seem off-topic, but lets turn our attention back to the reason this is a beautiful endgame weapon for a hunter.

Total Enchanted RAP: 87 + 228 + 110 = 425 RAP

Crit you can find on almost any weapon, and haste is a dime a dozen, but this much raw AP on any slot is enough to get someone drooling. This is easily 250-300 AP higher than most dual wields for hunters, essentially making this staff about as valuable as having an extra trinket or chest on hand. It also allows hunters to move from survival to marksmanship (which is very well suited for Ulduar fights), without losing too much effective attack power from agility. Druids, if you intend to roll on this staff you'd better come feral so you can roll for main spec, cause hunters will be all over this one for a while.

Comment by 325521

Awsome staff, but this is another weap that im curious about on how the design is relevant to Naxx. Anyone know why it is?

Comment by 325521

Awsome staff, but this is another weap that im curious about on how the design is relevant to Naxx and its name. Anyone know why it is?

Comment by Ernst

Lost a roll on this in a Pug yesterday. I'm quite freshly dinged 80 so I'm still using the Icier Barbed Spear, and I was the only feral druid in the raid, but there was a hunter who already had a feral staff from Heigan.

He won.
:(

Comment by Bobaloo

To me, as a warrior with arms dps offset, looks like a winner...its better than colossal skull clad cleaver in all but looks. And hey, I hear stick warriors are all the rage.

Comment by 346571

This and the Envoy dropped off the last guild KT kill. 3 hunters were there and the druid didn't want the staff. One hunter won both rolls...X'D. Luckily he's a cool guy though; he let the second highest roll (me) get the staff... :D Moral = don't be a loot hog; if you're chill enough to spread the wealth around you'll end up making a good rep and more friends. Friends last longer than loot.

Comment by drdoom5081

Lets say I'm your standard survival hunter, and I currently have The Undeath Carrier with Massacre on it. There is sooo much hit flying around the new gear, its impossible for me not to be hit capped, so +hit is not important anymore.

If I got this, stats would change as such (reported by RatingBuster):
-407 HP
+47.4 AP
-0.05% crit
+2.29% haste

(current haste rating of 233)

Looks like a sidegrade at first, but the 2.29% haste is phenominal, considering how much I use Steady Shot in my DPS. Even if I was Marks, I'd still use Steady Shot. God forbid I was BM, the haste would be even better. Its as good as an upgrade to a hunter as it is to a Feral Druid IMO. Both should have an equal chance at it.

Comment by 167701

Stating that a feral gains nothing from weapon dps is simple fallacy. The feral AP is a druids compensation for not benefiting from weapon dps otherwise, calculated based on it, and intended to be of similar value, with talents like , it becomes all the more important. Melee weapon dps, via feral ap, is as important to a cat as ranged weapon dps is to a hunter. Until around 80 is an amazing feral dps weapon, guess why. Hint: it's not the +30 to fishing skill.

If you truly believe both gain equally, try loading up a gear spreadsheet/calculator with nax gear for both a hunter and a feral druid, and take a quick look and the dps change between a pre-raid blue and this. The feral gains more from this than a hunter upgrading from having no melee weapon at all, discounting enchants. While I will not argue it's benefit to hunters, my hunter will never roll for it over a cat who has need of it, even if I was still using a quest green for some reason. (quick, dirty, and not very accurate, but take a look: Comparison)

I'm done with this, this commentary doesn't belong on wowhead, it's no longer BiS, and it's quite pointless to debate an issue with those who are blind to others.

Comment by 345874

This is one of the most idiotic arguments i have ever seen.

First off, to everyone who says "A druid will benefit far more from this than a hunter will." BS
RAP and FAP are completely different. point for point, RAP gives far more dps than FAP does, if they gave the same Feral Druids would be highest dps is in the game w/o contest.

Secondly, saying "How would a hunter like it if melee rolled on their bows?" is a very stupid comment.
Warriors have ranged weapons that grant strength, which is far more valuable than 36 agility (Most agility on a ranged weapon pre-Ulduar). And even rogues have thrown weapons which grant them better stats than a bow or gun would. Besides, there are a surplus of guns and bows to roll on if they really need them AFTER the hunter gets a good one, but far less melee weapons for a hunter to roll on after the druid gets his/her.

Comment by Eilonthay

Looks wise, it reminds me a lot of what Broll Bearmantle carts around with him in the comic series.

Comment by Nulgar

Did you actually do the numbers for the example with Whale-Stick Harpoon and Undeath Carrier?
Let's do a quick stat comparison, assuming (falsely, but to compare them more easily) that 1 Agi = 1 Haste = 1 Crit = 1 Hit = 2 AP. Each of these give one "point". Of course, I repeat, this is very simplifying, but just look at the numbers:
Whale-Stick Harpoon gives the hunter 159 points.
Undeath Carrier gives the druid 227,5 for the raw stats, and 1042,5 for the Feral AP
Journey's End gives 333 for the stats, and 1176,5 for the Feral AP.
Now, the hunter would gain 174 points, while the druid would gain 239,5.
I'd say even in a setting where the hunter is hit-capped even without the harpoon, and the other (additional) stats on Journey's End would profit him well, he'd at most get about the same upgrade benefit as the druid. Now, if the hunter had a far worse stat stick... in a PuG, he wouldn't be allowed in, and in a guild, he most likely would have a better weapon already, unless he's an alt/friend without loot rights.
So, even in a situation as unlikely as "hunter has very bad stat stick, while druid has a weapon a few iLvls below", the hunter's gain only barely outweighs the druid's gain.

But it's a slippery slope anyway. Would you pass on that bow from the current 25man because you "already" have a 10man bow, and the rogue has Stolen Vrykul Harpoon, if math showed it would profit the raid more if the rogue got the bow? I know, a moot point by now because of e.g. Crimson Star, but just ponder it.
And that star? They gave that to rogues/warriors to prevent them from rolling on dropped ranged weapons, that's actually very good for hunters, especially in PuGs (or in guilds with dumb loot masters)
And as far as I know, there are hardly any quarrels between rogues and hunters, the rogues are even rather ok with not getting a good 264 ranged weapon even after all the hunters have Zod (let's assume PuGs can't down the Lich King in the next weeks)
If hunters got a hunter-only melee weapon from badges (similar to what they got for PvP in BC, which somehow stopped halfway through WotLK) would they cease to roll on dropped weapons?

Comment by dubplate

Now in RL!

Comment by Allakhazam

this items will own for a lvl 80 druid i think ull be awesome!

Comment by Biftard

last night Journey's End dropped for my feral druid, and the raid leader let the three hunters roll against me for it, and i lost it.

while im sure there are decent hunters out there, i think its pretty obvious that there are many horrible greedy ones as well. until hunters as a group agree that something like Journey's End should go to any feral mainspec before any hunter can roll on it, i say its fair game for any warrior or rogue to roll on Envoy of Mortality with the same wild abandon.

sound fair?

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Journey's End

Item Level 226
Binds when picked up

Two-Hand	Staff

428 - 642 Damage	Speed 2.40

(222.92 damage per second)
+87 Agility
+214 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120

Requires Level 80
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 57.
Equip: Improves haste rating by 75.

Sell Price: 26 70 3

Dropped by: Kel'Thuzad

Drop Chance: 11.46%

Journey's End

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